Yes, this is a problem for the application that needs to be addressed.
There are ways to dramatically reduce the sidetone latency to where it
shouldn't be an issue, but they probably cannot be implemented reliably
in a browser-based application. The latency in the existing browser
application should work fine for SSB and CW sent by keyboard/logger, but
it looks like a standalone executable version written in C++ will be
needed to fix the problem for hand keyed CW.
I've started work on that.
I suspect that even the C++ version won't work very well for full break
in CW sent by hand, at least not at high speeds. Semi-break in should
be OK.
Relative to Jim's comments on electronically generated noise, the
NoiseNulller application really doesn't make any assumptions about what
the noise is. It analyzes and profiles whatever it is and then
subtracts that profile from the combination of noise and signal. It's
completely adaptive. More importantly, it does that analysis based upon
the spatial PHASE of the noise, not its amplitude profile. That's a lot
more powerful and effective ... but only for noise coming from a unique
direction and it requires the ability to do diversity reception.
And Jim is correct that this stuff takes processing power and I don't
know whether any current rig has the room to do it or not ... but I bet
future rigs will. Or they will end up being mostly just RF front ends
for your computer that very easily DOES have the power to do it.
Dave AB7E
On 7/29/2026 9:48 AM, Jim Brown via Elecraft wrote:
On 7/28/2026 11:19 PM, David Gilbert via Elecraft wrote:
A ham that has been experimenting with my NoiseNuller application
pointed out to me where the current latency is indeed a problem, and
that is when listening to the sidetone while sending CW with a key or
paddle. The sidetone audio coming out of the computer is delayed
enough to throw off your keying at anything other than pretty slow
speeds if you depend upon that for feedback. It wouldn't be a
problem for keying from a keyboard, but it is when manually keying.
Yes, any latency is an issue for this.
I'm working to improve that.
In my opinion, though, it's just another reason why this kind of
processing really belongs inside the rig itself.
That takes a lot of processing power, AND a rig with two synchronized
receivers in their signal chain. Of the rigs I know about, that MIGHT
be Flex and Elecraft K4D. At least six years ago, then neighbor NR0V
demonstrated spectacularly good single radio NR on SSB that he had
written for Anon, and I urged Wayne to look at it. Elecraft recently
released a firmware update that reportedly does great things for SSB,
but didn't do anything useful on my electronically generated noise
when I tried it on CW.
Wayne -- what I think Dave has done is an app that does what an NCC-1
or NCC-2 in the audio chain. I've not tried it, but listened to his
simulations.
73, Jim K9YC
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