Re: [EM] Should we say a criterion implicitly doesnt apply to a method?

[Russ Paielli]

When Condorcet proposed his voting method, he stipulated ranked ballots. 
Furthermore, all variations of Condorcet voting since then have always 
been based on ranked ballots. The Condorcet criterion therefore simply 
requires that the election method allow each voter to individually rank 
the candidates. Whether explicitly stated or implied, part of the 
criterion is that the method be ordinal. If a particular method is not 
ordinal, it fails the Condorcet criterion by definition. It's a no-brainer.

MIKE OSSIPOFF nkklrp-at-hotmail.com |EMlist| wrote:
There could be some disagreement over whether a certain kind of 
criterion applies to Plurality. Such as this defective Condorcet 
Criterion definition, which I call a "ham-sandwich" criterion because 
earlier I said that a ham sandwich would pass it if it's application 
weren't limited to voting systems.

For all candidates Y, if more voters rank X over Y than rank Y over X, 
then X should win.

[end of Ham-Sandwich  CC definition]
My position yesterday was that Plurality passes that criterion, 
meaninglessly. I said that because it seemed unwarranted to customize 
the meaning of passing a criterion just to protect that defective 
criterion from giving a meaningless answer. I felt that to do so would 
be to give unwarranted recognition to ham-sandwich criteria.

Of course it could be argued that avoiding a meaningless answer is 
desirable, and that since ham-sandwich criteria are to be found written 
in many places, it's worth having definitions that avoid having to say 
that Plurality (meaninglessly) passes them.

So how about this approach?:
This first statement goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway:
A criterion explicitly doesn't apply to a method or class of methods if 
that criterion's definition explicitly says that the cariterion doesn't 
apply to that method or class of methods.

A criterion implicitly doesn't apply to a method  if it can be shown 
that no example with that method can comply with that criterion's 
premise, and if that criterion's definition doesn't explicitly say that 
the criterion doesn't apply to that method or to some class of methods 
to which that method belongs.

If a criterion explicitly or implicitly doesn't apply to a method, then 
that method neither passes nor fails that criterion.

[end of suggested definitions about criteria explicitly and implicitly 
not applyng to methods]

Mike Ossipoff
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