------------ Forwarded Letter ------------
>From: "Moe St. EverGreen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Advance Copy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Reply to: [EM] Multiple Winner Elections
>Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 16:12:29 -0500
>Although I understand that we would not want to use
>approval voting for multiple candidate situations,
>I do not see how you can say IRV is better
>than approval voting in a single winner situation.
Don: I have the reverse problem. I do not see how anyone can say Approval
Voting is better than Irving in a single winner situation.
Do you have a most preferred choice when you vote in a single seat
election? If so, you are like me, but Approval Voting will not allow us to
have a top choice, unless of course we only make one choice, but then if
our top choice loses we will have no second choice to become our top
choice. Besides, is it still Approval Voting if people only make one
choice?
If we make two selections, our second selection will help some other
candidate defeat our top choice. Most people, once they are aware of this
situation will refuse to make any more selections than their top choice.
I like Irving - Approval is too much trouble.
>In STV, it seems that the affiliation doesn't matter?
>in that case, I would not want unaffiliated person to have
>greater significance.
>I know that in some proportional systems proposed, affiliation
>matters, and that affiliation can mean unaffiliated person
>have a significantly less chance of winning which makes
>the system unfair, which is why I mentioned that.
Don: Affiliation does matter to the people and the results may be uneven
but it is not unfair. The people are not required to give every candidate
the same number of votes. The people are allowed to be uneven. That is what
an election is all about, get use to it.
When the people vote as a body, we expect them to give more votes to
some candidates than to others, we expect them to be `unfair'. An election
is not a `feel good' exercise in which every candidate receives the same
gold star on the forehead. The people are doing what they are supposed to
do. Don't try to offset their voting.
Besides, better reasons can be presented on why people should vote for
affiliated candidates than for unaffiliated candidates. It is not wrong if
the people act on these reasons, they are merely sticking to the business
of voting. The people are more informed about their own affiliations than
they are about the candidates. It is best that they vote for the candidate
that is affiliated with their affiliation.
>Could you send me a pointer to a clear description
>of an STV system exactly equivalent that that which you describe?
Don: You may wish to see what the Center for Voting and Democracy has to
say about STV on their web site at: www.fairvote.org
>Right now our committee is tending towards using Approval Voting
>and Cumulative Voting, as they are both simple to define and implement,
>and both better than mere plurality.
Don: If your committee does go with Approval Voting for single seat
elections, you can do us on the Election Methods list a big favor by being
so kind as to supply us with returns. We would not need all the ballots,
just the vote combinations. For example, a four candidate race could have
15 possible combinations as follows: A, B, C, D, AB, AC, AD, BC, BD, CD,
ABC, ABD, ACD, BCD, and ABCD. We on the EM list have discussed Approval
Voting without any reality. Results from a real election in the real world
will greatly help resolve this dispute.
For this favor from you I will favor you with a tip on how to vote in
an Approval election. If your candidate is a possible winner, instruct your
faction to only vote for your candidate, not to make any other selections.
Votes from your faction will only help your candidate, but there will be
votes in the other factions that will help your candidate. This difference
will give your candidate an edge, maybe a large enough edge to win.
>We have a few multiple winner positions of two to three people, a couple
>of single winner positions, and one large (30 to 600 person ) committee.
>- Moe.
Don: Thank you for writing and I'll be looking for the results of your
first Approval Voting election.
Regards, Donald Davison - Host of New Democracy, www.mich.com/~donald
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| Q U O T A T I O N |
| "Democracy is a beautiful thing, |
| except that part about letting just any old yokel vote." |
| - Age 10 |
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