On May 28, 2008, at 1:24 , Dave Ketchum wrote:
On Tue, 27 May 2008 19:33:29 +0300 Juho wrote:
On May 27, 2008, at 18:52 , Dave Ketchum wrote:
> In summary, yes, that is what the rules could look like. I'm very
> flexible to what kind of set of rules each user would adopt.
The rules
> also could be much simpler than including all the listed
possibilities.
> My intention is just to show various paths that could be used
to make
> the basic random vote method more applicable to the needs.
This puzzles. You need ONE set of rules for all to understand,
with a few details such as number of nominators for a nominee
tailored to getting reasonable quantities of candidates.
Ok, the example below gave one set of rules for one need.
Generally I just identified a list of tricks that can be used in
a random vote based methods to make them usable in various
situations.
Looking at ALL the races voted on at a precinct, they share ONE set
of voters, who can be expected to start asking questions if the
rules differ.
Yes, if there are several elections for the same set of voters then
at least there should be a clear justification of any differences. I
think people can understand if there are some extra limitations on
who can be elected as the president when compared to who can be
elected for some minor duties.
Your reference to "random vote" sounds like a purpose would be to
prevent winning by the candidate the voters prefer.
Certainly we should want the voters to make intelligent
informed choices.
I agree that for most elections the deterministic methods are more
recommendable than the non-deterministic ones.
Juho
>> At the moment, my grasp of your suggestion does not allow a firm
>> opinion. Can we flesh out parts of it with greater detail?
>
>
> I presented the proposal as a family of methods that might use
> different rules in different ways. In order to go to greater
detail
> (maybe to lesser amount of details too) one could take some
example
> situation and example method. We could for example see what
kind of
> rules could be used in electing ten people of a city to act
as trusted
> citizens monitoring the criminal interrogations of the police.
>
> There is probably no reason to require any specific skills =>
normal
> people will do. Maybe all volunteers can be expected to have good
> intentions => no need to control the candidates from this
point of view
> either. Maybe we could require some width of support => let's
say three
> support votes needed. We could allow voters to list e.g. three
> candidates. After collecting the ballots (and counting the
number of
> support votes for each candidate) we would pick random ballots
and
> elect the first candidate (who has not been elected yet) with
at least
> three support votes overall from each ballot. If we don't know if
> someone has volunteered we could call him and check (and move
to the
> next candidate or ballot if the answer is negative). If all
citizens
> can be uniquely identified with good enough probability (in
unclear
> cases the previous ten elected citizens may interpret the
intended
> meaning of the vote) there may be no need for a formal
nomination process.
Good intentions? Desirable, but attempting non-destructive
control could, itself, be destructive.
My assumption here was that these positions were light weight
enough to allow some fellow citizens to make the decisions
according to their best understanding, and that would probably
not lead to any major conflicts of interest. It is for example
not very likely that any of the decision makes would know any of
the to be elected candidates here.
Again, all races should share one set of rules.
Random ballots? I admit to choking at the thought:
If the voters identify a winner, that should end it.
If the leading candidates are near a tie then it matters
little which wins, but I would go for chance only on a true tie.
>
> This method is quite simple and straight forward and might work
well
> enough for this simple task. Just one example among many.
For most elections I am for Condorcet, which permits:
Bullet voting, suitable when a voter does not care beyond
naming a first choice.
Ranking all liked candidates above those liked less.
Ranking all candidates, suitable for ranking hated enemies
at the end.
Random ballot based methods were addressed to offer solutions to
(what I thought to be) the requirements of Mr Gohlke. From this
perspective random ballots can be used to open up the possibility
to elect also some regular citizens in addition to (or instead
of) the party controlled candidates.
Juho
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Dave Ketchum 108 Halstead Ave, Owego, NY 13827-1708 607-687-5026
Do to no one what you would not want done to you.
If you want peace, work for justice.
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