Andre, I agree with you, and I think elementary needs to continue improving things in this area. I would, however, like to dispel a myth you set forth in your email: Ubuntu has many secrets and dark-room-decisions, trust me. That doesn't mean that we should at all, just pointing out the error.
Allen Lowe On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Andre Luis dos Santos <[email protected]> wrote: > IMHO, Sergey tried to kill a rabbit (no pun intented) and shot other. (I > think this only make sense in Portuguese...) When we started discussing the > web page mockup we stumbled upon a more important issue: the decision-make > process of elementary. > > I don't think is doable everybody voting things up. But I, IMHO, think we > should have a more representative council. When we make a decision, we > should have input from all the teams: the developers, designers, community > representats and even translators. We, not only as elementary, but as Linux > are a Community. If we start to do things as a strict hierarchy we'll lose > the spirit of Linux. > > Even quietly, I ever hated this "it's a secret" thing that the Council likes > to do. Why the Council has to do things so secretly? Why important things > like Kickstarter have to be done in a dark room with no one around? Should't > we be a community where everybody is a important part of the process? > Really, I'm not saying we should have input from every single member of > elementary Community, but we should do things more clearly. With the teams > we have a group of members that discuss how the things will be done, and a > manager of the team that has the final say. Why couldn't the Council be like > that? With a representative of all teams, and Dan as the "good dictator"? > > We, as elementary, aren't following the Linux. Not the "free as free beer" > aspect, but the openess aspect. We should do things as a whole group, not as > a all mighty council and a bunch of lackeys that have to follow orders. > > I think Sergey is right. We, as developers, designers, translators or simply > users, should have a voice in elementary decision make process. And every > single step we take should be in a clear and open environment, where anyone > could follow the process and where no secrets exist. I only follow this > elementary community and Ubuntu community, but Ubuntu guys really show the > things they do. You can see every step of every project they make, and no > secrets or dark-room-decisions are allowed. > > As a FOSS community, we know that things don't fall from heaven. We have to > eat, pay the taxes and take care of our families. But when we take a role in > a FOSS community we are dedicating our free time to it. Payrolls don't > matter, but how can we dedicate a part of our lives to a project we don't > even know what direction it goes to? In my humble opinion as just a user and > member of elementary Community, this, and not donations or web pages, is > asking to much from us. > > Andre Santos > > Em 03-07-2012 16:07, Cassidy James escreveu: > >> A decision that affects developers greatly was made without them even >> knowing, left alone being able to influence the decision. > > To be honest, the exact details of how we present the iso download on our > front page doesn't greatly effect developers. elementary is and always has > been open source; by its very nature that means its freely available to all. > Design decisions and decisions on how to bring money in to pay for our > expenses don't and should not have to be run by every developer. This is the > reason for having a small Council who can make those decisions. > >> Is that the intended decision-making process or a mistake from which the >> Council is willing to learn is what I'd like to know > > Again, there's a reason we have a small Council who is able to make > organizational, design, and monetary decisions. It is not intended to run > every single decision past Сергей Давыдов before making it. Obviously we're > always open to learning; if the home page design doesn't work out, of course > we'll consider alternatives. > > If you or anyone else has any further specific issues you'd like to raise, > the Council is reachable at [email protected]. Give a little bit of > time for a response if you do mail us there; as Daniel mentioned, we're busy > both with and outside of elementary. But we do try and respond to any mails > at one point or another. > > Regards, > Cassidy James > > On Jul 3, 2012 1:07 PM, "Daniel Foré" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> As it turns out, we have families and lives and jobs and responsibilities >> outside of elementary. That means that we're not always able to meet every >> week and discuss every issue. >> >> In my personal opinion, this is a web design issue and not something that >> needs to be run through you first for approval. But I'd be interested to >> find out from other people why they think we need to directly democratize >> our web design or any design for that matter. >> >> If you're upset because you can't get your demands met on a certain time >> schedule I'm afraid there's nothing I can do for you. You may not be aware, >> but this week celebrates our independence in the US. So there's a lot of >> family flooding in and I'm super busy juggling my very extended family. I >> can guarantee I won't be able to make the meeting again this Saturday >> because it's also my mother's birthday. >> >> I wish you luck in your next endeavor and hope you don't harbor any ill >> will towards elementary. You're always welcome back at any time. >> >> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Сергей Давыдов <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Okay, it's been a week. In addition, a Council meeting should have >>> taken place three days ago. This seems to be quite enough time to >>> settle on something and write a reply. >>> >>> To speed up the discussion, I stop pretending that everything is all >>> right and cease any work on elementary till I receive an answer to my >>> question. >>> >>> -- >>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best Regards, >> >> Daniel Foré >> >> elementaryos.org >> >> >> -- >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >> Post to : [email protected] >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> > > > > > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > Post to : [email protected] > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : [email protected] Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
