One nitpick. Merge arg and state in the return in init. Having them
separate is confusing. Delayed init takes one parameter and returns a new
state. What happens to the originally returned state?

On Sun, May 15, 2016, 7:23 AM James Fish <[email protected]> wrote:

> I think the larger problem being tackled here is that current OTP
> behaviours require the callbacks to be purely message based and do not make
> it easy to dispatch internal events. Have you looked at :gen_statem in OTP
> 19 rc1? I think it solves this problem quite well, or at least I have not
> seen something I think is better. Once OTP 19 lands I'll release
> :gen_connection which is :connection but using a :gen_statem instead of a
> :gen_server. It simplifies the code enormously and works better with OTPs
> logging and debugging features. It might be that you want to propose
> including GenStatem instead of a delayed init.
>
> On 15 May 2016 at 15:20, Michał Muskała <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Yes, diverging from Erlang's gen_server is an issue, but we're already
>> doing that, albeit on a smaller scale. On the other hand this change
>> is purely extensible - if not used, it does not affect your code in
>> any way.
>>
>> As with most such things synchronous vs asynchronous initialization is
>> a tradeoff, I'd say it should be easily possible for the developers to
>> choose which guarantees interest them. Right now one is extremely easy
>> to achieve, and the other is rather complicated. I agree, though, that
>> synchronous initialization is a better choice in most circumstances,
>> but when you need async, well - you need it ;)
>> Another case for async initialization is that the synchronous one is
>> happening one process at a time. In case you have a lot of processes
>> that all need to load some state from database doing it concurrently
>> should be a huge improvement in the startup time. The guarantee of the
>> supervision tree is decreased only slightly if you have a process that
>> checks for the availability of the connection earlier in the
>> supervision tree.
>>
>> Doing this as a separate library was my initial idea, until I tried to
>> find a name and couldn't come up with anything satisfying other than
>> just "GenServer". At that point I decided to write this proposal
>> first, but doing it as a library is still something I'm considering.
>> Writing a proposal was also a way to gather opinions on usefulness of
>> such a library.
>>
>> 2016-05-15 15:34 GMT+02:00 Andrea Leopardi <[email protected]>:
>> > I'm not sure about this. It would make Elixir's GenServer different from
>> > Erlang's gen_server, and I'm not sure that's ok. I agree that it's
>> nasty to
>> > do this correctly, but it's still very possible.
>> > Also, I would say that if you depend on said database
>> resources/expensive
>> > initialization for your application to function properly, than I think
>> it's
>> > ok to have a long initialization. Section 2.2 in chapter 2 of Erlang in
>> > Anger has a very interesting discussion about this.
>> >
>> > Maybe this is more suited to an external library (similar to (gen
>> > :P)connection)?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 2:45:27 PM UTC+2, Michał Muskała wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello everybody,
>> >>
>> >> Today GenServer (and all stdlib behaviours) are initialized
>> >> synchronously - only after init/1 returns the start_link function will
>> >> return. But in many places the initialization may be expensive or is
>> >> not essential to the GenServer's operation and can be, at least
>> >> partially, delayed.
>> >>
>> >> There are couple solutions to this problem. One is sending itself a
>> >> message from init/1, which is error prone, because we have no
>> >> guarantees that this will be the first message received by the
>> >> process. The other one is to use :proc_lib or :gen directly, similar
>> >> to how it's used in the connection library
>> >>
>> https://github.com/fishcakez/connection/blob/master/lib/connection.ex#L595
>> >> - this solution is correct, but very complicated and requires advanced
>> >> knowledge of OTP internals.
>> >>
>> >> I'd like to propose adding another callback to GenServer called
>> >> delayed_init/1. that would be called if a new tuple {:delayed_init,
>> >> arg, state} is returned from init/1. The callback would be called
>> >> after  start_link returned, but before any message is processed by the
>> >> server.
>> >> The delayed_init/1 would support returning:
>> >> {:ok, state} - for entering normal GenServer loop
>> >> {:ok, state, timeout | :hibernate} - similar to init/1
>> >> {:stop, reason, state} - similar to the return value of call/3 and
>> cast/2
>> >>
>> >> This would allow to deal with the problem easily from application code
>> >> and simplify libraries such as connection significantly, removing all
>> >> the OTP plumbing code.
>> >>
>> >> Example use cases include - opening sockets or ports, loading some
>> >> state from external resources like databases or doing some expensive
>> >> initialization that we know usually succeeds and that should not block
>> >> starting the supervision tree, awaiting the start of other parts of
>> >> the supervision tree or other applications before processing messages.
>> >>
>> >> What do you think about that?
>> >>
>> >> Michał.
>> >
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