> > TodoMVC in Elm is 21kb (minified & gzip) ;)
Oh, great to hear that :) Is that using Closure Compiler? I'd like to know if there are some place to see those numbers. It may be helpful to make decisions. 2016-07-12 15:46 GMT+09:00 Peter Damoc <[email protected]>: > TodoMVC in Elm is 21kb (minified & gzip) ;) > > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Yosuke Torii <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Sorry, please let me adjust my previous comment. >> >> I said React+Elm is too large, but now I found it's NOT so large as I >> thought. >> (Of course not as small as lightweight libraries yet) >> >> I just saw the number at TodoMVC. >> >> elm.js: 69.7 KB gziped >> (including all user code) >> >> react-with-addons.js: 174 KB gziped >> >> jquery.js: 83.9 KB gziped >> >> I'm surprised the fact Elm is even smaller than jQuery. >> It means React+Elm is smaller than React+jQuery. >> Considering it's temporary to use them together, this number is not too >> bad, I think. >> >> >> 2016-07-11 3:37 GMT+09:00 Richard Feldman <[email protected]>: >> >>> It's all good. :) >>> >>> This stuff is complicated! >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, 11:19 AM Peter Damoc <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Richard, >>>> >>>> Thank you for taking the time to write this considerate answer. >>>> >>>> I apologize for the post I wrote yesterday. >>>> I was in a very very dark place after a night plagued by insomnia at >>>> the end of an extremely stressful week where I could not get anything done. >>>> >>>> Fear is the path to the dark side... and I think I let fear take over. >>>> >>>> Anyway, it is fascinating to see that such a seemingly simple topic has >>>> the brightest minds in the world still looking for an answer. >>>> >>>> I did not knew that the situation is this complicated. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Richard Feldman < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Regarding the user form, you said that what I asked is trivial in >>>>>> Elm. >>>>>> Do you have some kind of sample code that you can share or, if you >>>>>> would be so kind, could you post some sample repository that does that? >>>>>> >>>>> I would *LOVE* to be proven wrong about that. I would love to see >>>>>> some simple Elm code that outputs a form that looks like it came from >>>>>> 2016 >>>>>> and go "oops, my bad, sorry for wasting everyone's time". >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sure - I even wrote a blog post >>>>> <http://tech.noredink.com/post/129641182738/building-a-live-validated-signup-form-in-elm> >>>>> about >>>>> it. :) >>>>> >>>>> That post includes examples in the form of SignupForm.elm >>>>> <https://gist.github.com/rtfeldman/ba60ad491cc6b58fe2cc4ca78f5a4580> >>>>> and the styles that go with it >>>>> <https://gist.github.com/rtfeldman/4ec263490ba9a1618b59#file-example-html-L7-L16>. >>>>> I >>>>> didn't bother inline the styles into Elm, but obviously that's a >>>>> copy/paste >>>>> and find/replace job. >>>>> >>>>> All of Graphics.Input was dropped >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ah, I did not know that! My mistake. You're right, Janis. >>>>> >>>>> Regarding elm-mdl. I am well aware of the release of 6.0.0. I was not >>>>>> arguing that people are not still fighting. >>>>>> What I said was that "*they were explicitly or implicitly dismissed"* >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> If you want me to be more explicit, I was thinking about the >>>>>> discussions around boilerplate that prompted elm-parts, the difficulties >>>>>> around geometry that prompted debois/elm-dom. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Facebook released React with a built-in, dead-easy way to do reusable >>>>> stateful components: each component has its own local mutable state. >>>>> >>>>> However, they at Facebook weren't satisfied with how this UX scaled, >>>>> so they also released Flux as a more scalable way to manage state. >>>>> >>>>> Many people weren't happy with Flux, though, so they started looking >>>>> elsewhere, for example to ClojureScript, leading to Omniscient.js >>>>> <https://github.com/omniscientjs/omniscient> based on David Nolen's >>>>> cursor-based state management model for Om >>>>> <https://github.com/omcljs/om>. >>>>> >>>>> David Nolen himself ended up moving away from that with Om Next >>>>> <https://github.com/omcljs/om/wiki/Quick-Start-(om.next)>, which >>>>> abandoned cursors in favor of a custom state management system based on >>>>> Relay, Falcor, and Datomic. Obviously not everyone agrees with him; >>>>> Omniscient.js is still under active development. Its last commit is 2 days >>>>> ago. >>>>> >>>>> Others looked to Elm, like Dan Abramov, who created Redux >>>>> <https://github.com/reactjs/redux>. It's very popular in the React >>>>> world, although since Facebook hired Dan, he's been working on ways to >>>>> make >>>>> React not need it anymore. That seems likely to result in the release of a >>>>> new way to do things <https://xkcd.com/927/>, whenever whatever it is >>>>> gets released. >>>>> >>>>> Others thought Redux was too heavyweight and trying to do too much at >>>>> once, which has led to Choo >>>>> <https://github.com/yoshuawuyts/choo#concepts>, a self-described >>>>> <https://github.com/yoshuawuyts/choo#hey-doesnt-this-look-a-lot-like-elm> >>>>> adaptation of Elm 0.17's architecture in JS. >>>>> >>>>> I've spent hours discussing these things with Jafar Husain at Netflix, >>>>> who thinks Observables are the answer. See for example rx-react >>>>> <https://github.com/fdecampredon/rx-react> or Andre Staltz's popular >>>>> Cycle.js <http://cycle.js.org/>. >>>>> >>>>> This is to say nothing of how Angular manages state. Or Ember. Or >>>>> Aurelia. Or Vue. >>>>> >>>>> My point is this: >>>>> >>>>> *Every single community that's involved in making browser-based UIs is >>>>> flooded with conflicting viewpoints on how reusable stateful components >>>>> should be done.* >>>>> >>>>> There is not some glaringly obvious answer that will make everyone >>>>> happy. It does not exist. >>>>> >>>>> History strongly suggests that in this area,* making one group of >>>>> people happy makes others unhappy.* >>>>> >>>>> I was on a Skype call several months ago where Søren and Evan had an >>>>> extended discussion about his experiences developing elm-mdl. The fact >>>>> that >>>>> Evan did not end up doing things the way you think he should is not a >>>>> reflection of Evan being dismissive of Søren's experience, it's that >>>>> *reusable >>>>> stateful components are a minefield of tradeoffs*. >>>>> >>>>> Personally I think when one finds oneself in a minefield, it is wise >>>>> to tread carefully. :) >>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Elm Discuss" group. >>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> There is NO FATE, we are the creators. >>>> blog: http://damoc.ro/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>> Google Groups "Elm Discuss" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/elm-discuss/gVY5DmZOR9s/unsubscribe. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "Elm Discuss" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/elm-discuss/gVY5DmZOR9s/unsubscribe. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Elm Discuss" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > There is NO FATE, we are the creators. > blog: http://damoc.ro/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Elm Discuss" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/elm-discuss/gVY5DmZOR9s/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Elm Discuss" group. 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