I disagree that the manual project should move into a one year
probation where success is measured by the number of contributors.
So, my response to LETS GO! is NOT THERE!
Instead, let's move the project forward with the understanding
that if it proves to be a bad idea, then the Org mode community
will have Nicolas' very nice .texi file (with backports by Kyle
Meyer) to fall back on.
On the issue of your work on Org mode, I'm hoping your
circumstances will allow you to be more involved, not less.
All the best,
as a preamble, let me say that I appreciate the directness of
message and the civil tone of this conversation. I understand
are frustrations lingering around, I have my own too, so let's
this thread as constructive as possible, because we all deserve
as a community.
Let me separate two questions: one is my attitude in dealing
migration; another one is my general ability as a maintainer.
The first question naturally leads to the other one, but the
exists per se and I'll take this opportunity to say a few words.
So, about this manual migration.
Here is a quick timeline:
In 2013, I said it was a nice experiment.
In 2014, I said I would be "more than happy" if you and others
progress on this:
In 2016, Charles quoted me saying: "Where Bastien says: "the
can export org.org to org.texi with very little headache and
configuration, yes, we will make the move.""
In January 2018, I said: "Having the manual in .org is a great
achievement, congrats to anyone who worked on this titanic
I'm all for editing manual.org instead of org.texi in the long
In March 2018, I said there was no blocker, "please move
So I don't think I have been scolding you or anyone working on
quite on the contrary. In my message from 2014, I said I won't
time to dedicate to the project. And while I was kind of
about the idea, I have been consistent in sending encouragements
in not blocking it.
Maybe I should have explained why I was skeptical: but in
it was just a gut feeling, and expressing it would probably have
unproductive; then when I had this project to develop Org from
Emacs, I was not so sure about it either, so I was first
to raise premature objections.
When Nicolas sollicited the list again in january, I tried to
few inputs: not as constructive as I'd wish they were, but
Now, my main input is this: LET'S GO!
So... I completely recognize my general lack of responsiveness
problem and it may have been a problem in this case, but I hope
see that I carefully tried not to block anyone's work on this.
asking inputs from emacs-devel@ is not a way of delaying or
it is just something normal to do considering the move.
So now let's close this issue, I'll write to emacs-devel@ and we
make the switch.
Now, about my general experience and attitude as a maintainer.
I started to take care of Org-mode in 2011, on January 1st.
Seven years ago... time flies :)
I've been involved in code and communication on the list on a
basis until septembre 2012, the day my daughter was born. Stats
prove my memory is wrong here, but I think I stayed closely
until septembre 2014. Enters life: I had a burn out, a break up
I was broke. Like in: completely broke, no job, no place to
I asked Nicolas whether he would considered to be the maintainer
several occasions -- the first one dating back to november 2011.
always had a frank conversation about this. Nicolas declined,
managed to find a balanced way of collaborating and I
moved from being proactive to being more of a release manager.
Despite not being the "official" maintainer, Nicolas is the de
one since 2015. And again, I cannot express how much I owe to
and his consistency for the last three years.
But believe me: I wish I could continue to spend one or two
day coding and communicating on the mailing list: because, it's
of a home for me. But I could not. And I cannot.
So here is my plan:
- We make the switch to using manual.org.
- We release Org 9.2.
- I extract the contrib/ directory from org-mode.git into a
org-contrib.git to live on code.orgmode.org (something I've
- I go down my org-mode TODO list to see if there are importants
and features I wish to work on.
- In the meantime, I find a new maintainer.
- We release Org 10 and the new maintainer takes on.
I think the whole process can take from 2 to 3 months, and I'm
to dedicate more time to Org during these months.
Thomas S. Dye