Aloha Bastien,

I disagree that the manual project should move into a one year probation where success is measured by the number of contributors. So, my response to LETS GO! is NOT THERE!

Instead, let's move the project forward with the understanding that if it proves to be a bad idea, then the Org mode community will have Nicolas' very nice .texi file (with backports by Kyle Meyer) to fall back on.

On the issue of your work on Org mode, I'm hoping your circumstances will allow you to be more involved, not less.

All the best,

Bastien writes:

Hello Thomas,

as a preamble, let me say that I appreciate the directness of your message and the civil tone of this conversation. I understand there are frustrations lingering around, I have my own too, so let's keep this thread as constructive as possible, because we all deserve it
as a community.

Let me separate two questions: one is my attitude in dealing with this
migration; another one is my general ability as a maintainer.

The first question naturally leads to the other one, but the last one
exists per se and I'll take this opportunity to say a few words.

So, about this manual migration.

Here is a quick timeline:

  In 2013, I said it was a nice experiment.

In 2014, I said I would be "more than happy" if you and others could progress on this:

In 2016, Charles quoted me saying: "Where Bastien says: "the day we can export to org.texi with very little headache and ad hoc
  configuration, yes, we will make the move.""

  In January 2018, I said: "Having the manual in .org is a great
achievement, congrats to anyone who worked on this titanic task! I'm all for editing instead of org.texi in the long run."

In March 2018, I said there was no blocker, "please move ahead".

So I don't think I have been scolding you or anyone working on this, quite on the contrary. In my message from 2014, I said I won't have time to dedicate to the project. And while I was kind of skeptical about the idea, I have been consistent in sending encouragements and
in not blocking it.

Maybe I should have explained why I was skeptical: but in 2013-2015, it was just a gut feeling, and expressing it would probably have been unproductive; then when I had this project to develop Org from within Emacs, I was not so sure about it either, so I was first cautious not
to raise premature objections.

When Nicolas sollicited the list again in january, I tried to make a few inputs: not as constructive as I'd wish they were, but still.

Now, my main input is this: LET'S GO!

So... I completely recognize my general lack of responsiveness is a problem and it may have been a problem in this case, but I hope you see that I carefully tried not to block anyone's work on this. Again: asking inputs from emacs-devel@ is not a way of delaying or blocking,
it is just something normal to do considering the move.

So now let's close this issue, I'll write to emacs-devel@ and we will
make the switch.

Now, about my general experience and attitude as a maintainer.

I started to take care of Org-mode in 2011, on January 1st.

Seven years ago... time flies :)

I've been involved in code and communication on the list on a daily basis until septembre 2012, the day my daughter was born. Stats may prove my memory is wrong here, but I think I stayed closely committed until septembre 2014. Enters life: I had a burn out, a break up and I was broke. Like in: completely broke, no job, no place to stay.

I asked Nicolas whether he would considered to be the maintainer on several occasions -- the first one dating back to november 2011. We always had a frank conversation about this. Nicolas declined, but we managed to find a balanced way of collaborating and I confidently
moved from being proactive to being more of a release manager.

Despite not being the "official" maintainer, Nicolas is the de facto one since 2015. And again, I cannot express how much I owe to Nicolas
and his consistency for the last three years.

But believe me: I wish I could continue to spend one or two hours per day coding and communicating on the mailing list: because, it's kind
of a home for me.  But I could not.  And I cannot.

So here is my plan:

- We make the switch to using

- We release Org 9.2.

- I extract the contrib/ directory from org-mode.git into a separate org-contrib.git to live on (something I've wanted
  for long).

- I go down my org-mode TODO list to see if there are importants bugs
  and features I wish to work on.

- In the meantime, I find a new maintainer.

- We release Org 10 and the new maintainer takes on.

I think the whole process can take from 2 to 3 months, and I'm ready
to dedicate more time to Org during these months.


Thomas S. Dye

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