Good find, Sam. Is this repeatable at that location?

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:34 PM, sam sokolik <sa...@empirescreen.com> wrote:

> There seems to also be some constraint issues still also.
> http://imagebin.org/276104
>
> this triggered while running the axis splash screen gcode  (it seemed to
> trigger the first time around the z axis retract at the end of the 'L'
>
> sam
>
> On 11/7/2013 6:40 AM, sam sokolik wrote:
> > Good news - Max velocity and Feedrate override work now!  Yay
> >
> > Bad news.
> > 1.  Sometimes the first move doesn't start at the begining still. (I
> > don't know if this was addressed) and it isn't the same (it may start
> > further in the spiral sometimes)
> > example http://imagebin.org/275762 - the path starts at about 8:00
> > instead of 4:00 (o-clock)
> >
> > 2.  The performance is worse than the current blending.
> > Here is a 1khz base period
> > http://imagebin.org/276063
> >
> > Here is a 10khz base period
> > http://imagebin.org/276065
> >
> > (original current parabolic blending)
> > http://imagebin.org/276064
> >
> > I only slightly tested the acc/vel constaints initally - it didn't
> > trigger. Again - yay :)  (but I didn't do much more testing after seeing
> > the performance)
> >
> > Again - thanks for your work on this!!
> >
> > sam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/7/2013 5:42 AM, Robert Ellenberg wrote:
> >> I fixed the acceleration and feed override issues in the latest set of
> >> commits on github.
> >>
> >> For the feed override issue, it was a dumb error: I didn't copy over the
> >> "enables" from the previous move, meaning feed override was
> unintentionally
> >> shut off for the blend arcs.
> >>
> >> The acceleration bounds seem to be obeyed now that the velocity is
> capped
> >> to 1/2 of the segment length divided by the cycle time. As expected,
> >> turning up the servo loop speed increases the maximum velocity you can
> >> reach, at the cost of more processing.
> >>
> >> We're not out of the woods yet, unfortunately. While testing in
> simulation
> >> at 10kHz on the random walk path, there is an occasional glitch where
> the
> >> axis position becomes "nan". This is likely due to near-zero length
> >> segments being created, since there is no prohibition against trimming a
> >> line segment to almost no length. I'm working on a fix for this as
> well. If
> >> we can't entirely consume the previous line segment, then we must leave
> a
> >> good chunk of it unblended (say 1/2 of the line). This way, we don't get
> >> degenerate short segments.
> >>
> >> If you get the chance, it would be helpful to see if this same issue
> >> appears on your simulation.
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >> On Nov 6, 2013 2:49 PM, "sam sokolik" <sa...@empirescreen.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Cool - will test when ready :)
> >>>
> >>> sam
> >>> On 11/6/2013 1:45 PM, Robert Ellenberg wrote:
> >>>> I ran some simulations that showed the same thing, and I'm 90% sure
> >>> that's
> >>>> due to "skipping" of segments. My code does that accidentally, and the
> >>>> planner doesn't account for it. The simple fix is to limit the
> velocity
> >>> so
> >>>> it doesn't need to skip segments. I'm hoping to have that patch done
> >>>> tonight. That means your code will run much slower at 1kHz, but if the
> >>> loop
> >>>> is faster (10kHz), you may notice a difference. I'll send word as
> soon as
> >>>> the updates are ready.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks!
> >>>> Rob
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:38 PM, sam sokolik <sa...@empirescreen.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>> The halscope screenshots show the accelleration of x (and y but I
> didn't
> >>>>> graph that) overshooting.  (36im/sec/sec) The machine is set to
> >>>>> 30in/sec/sec.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> sam
> >>>>> On 11/6/2013 1:13 PM, EBo wrote:
> >>>>>> Is it really "overshooting", ie busing a limit, or does it just look
> >>>>>> bigger than you want?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Nov 6 2013 12:09 PM, sam sokolik wrote:
> >>>>>>> Also - in this situation - it looks like you are only over shooting
> >>>>>>> acceleration by a little bit...   (not count the initial move)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It seems like it is almost 'there'  :)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> sam
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 11/5/2013 1:28 PM, sam sokolik wrote:
> >>>>>>>> ok - scratch that...  The spike is at the initial moves - which I
> >>>>>>>> think
> >>>>>>>> you know there is an issue with.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I was able to capture some better (I think) comparisons between 1
> >>>>>>>> and 10khz
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> there doesn't seem to be too much of a difference.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 1khz
> >>>>>>>> http://imagebin.org/275886
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 10khz
> >>>>>>>> http://imagebin.org/275885
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> they are about the same with the peak acceleration of 36ish
> in/sec^2
> >>>>>>>> (should be 30) on X
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> sam
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 11/5/2013 12:58 PM, sam sokolik wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> well - I may be not understanding...  But If I up the servo
> thread
> >>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> 5khz - I get this...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> http://imagebin.org/275882
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> that is way worse - not better.  (acelleration peak of
> >>>>>>>>> 20517919in/sec^2)  If I set the servo thread to 10khz it is much
> >>>>>>>>> much
> >>>>>>>>> worse...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I told you I was good a breaking things...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> sam
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 11/5/2013 12:12 PM, sam sokolik wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Aww - that is unfortunate.  I thought that was the whole point.
> >>>>>>>>>> Could
> >>>>>>>>>> the naive cam detector fit larger arcs and combine segments?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> btw program pause seems to work well.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> sam
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/5/2013 11:09 AM, Robert Ellenberg wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Good work, Sam. I think this illustrates what can go wrong if
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> segments
> >>>>>>>>>>> are too short and the trajectory planner overshoots too much. I
> >>>>>>>>>>> have a fix
> >>>>>>>>>>> in progress that limits the velocity based on segment length.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately
> >>>>>>>>>>> this means that for very short segments like in your code, the
> >>>>>>>>>>> performance
> >>>>>>>>>>> won't be much better. Unfortunately this is a limitation of the
> >>>>>>>>>>> sample rate
> >>>>>>>>>>> of the trajectory planner (1kHz). To go faster, we need to run
> >>>>>>>>>>> the motion
> >>>>>>>>>>> loop faster, or resample the input trajectory (see the other
> >>>>>>>>>>> email thread).
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> -Rob
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:55 AM, sam sokolik
> >>>>>>>>>>> <sa...@empirescreen.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> some more graphs..  I think there is an issue with
> >>>>>>>>>>>> constraints...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am using this 'check_constraints.hal' file
> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://pastebin.com/V6ZfJAx4
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The original is here..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>
> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=configs/sim/axis/check_constraints.hal;h=c2a432078ec776484c82c16a269e776f0e1263f0;hb=HEAD
> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is running spiral - but I do get triggers on the spash
> >>>>>>>>>>>> screen also
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://imagebin.org/275867
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> you can see the 'constraints ok' goes false for quite a while
> >>>>>>>>>>>> during the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> run.   At the peak acelleration is over 450in/sec/sec  (should
> >>>>>>>>>>>> be less
> >>>>>>>>>>>> than 30)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Just some FYI
> >>>>>>>>>>>> thanks again
> >>>>>>>>>>>> sam
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/5/2013 8:44 AM, EBo wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Take a look at the old bi-arc approximation code.  That
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> basically does
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it.  There may be easier ways to do it, but I would have to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> dig.  I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> think I have some old code that calls a Fortran library to do
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> arbitrary
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> input to B-splines.  If you want to take a look at it I will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> dig
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> around...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>             EBo --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 5 2013 7:40 AM, Robert Ellenberg wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's good to know. I'm happy taking the easy way out if
> it's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> huge
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference, but it's nice to know that we could go there if
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> need be.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 5, 2013 9:37 AM, "EBo" <e...@sandien.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It has been a very long time since I have needed to do
> curve
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fitting
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generic input date -- actually image2gcode processing +
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offset
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surfaces.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you extend the idea past pairs to replacing n-positions
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a straight segment or arc, then a lot of these issues will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either go
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away or will be genuine problems.  If they are in fact
> issues
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> geometry, then we should/could analyze the acceleration
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profile and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adjust the max velocity accordingly.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             EBo --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 5 2013 7:23 AM, Robert Ellenberg wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now it will replace a pair of lines with a single
> arc
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blend
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tolerance allows it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the simplest answer is to slow the max velocity
> down
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always hits every segment at least once. This will still
> be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current method unless the segment length is very small.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One possibility is to increase the effective segment
> length
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treating
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multiple tangent segments as one long segment, at least as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> velocity profile is concerned. We would essentially be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resampling
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trajectory on the fly.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Rob
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 5, 2013 8:04 AM, "EBo" <e...@sandien.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 5 2013 5:38 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday 05 November 2013 07:37:15 andy pugh did
> opine:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5 November 2013 08:18, Robert Ellenberg
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rwe...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Sam's example has very short line segments (line
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lengths
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             0.0001"). We're hitting the limits of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sampling rate
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             running this code. At 1kHz, to move
> faster than
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0.1 in /
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sec
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> means
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             we start skipping segments.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That seems like pretty pathological G-code. If you
> can't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "touch"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every segment at 1kHz at the requested speed then I
> don't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should try to hold the speed.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What Andy said.  I am not in favor of throwing away
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accuracy.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are your approximating the little segments with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arc's/splines and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reducing the complexity, or are you skipping over some of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the former, then you can set the approximation
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parameterization
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know a priori exactly the behaviour.  With line segments
> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0.0001"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is basically the equivalent of recording single/two
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steps on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about any industrial machine tool.  I mean, how many
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tools
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work with that resolve anything below 0.00005"?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I will say is that this is a great stress/regression
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> test
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be kept.  We can continue to debate the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriateness
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of this pathological case.  I for one say thank
> you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the test to the extreme.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             EBo --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>
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> >> November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
> >> Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models.
> Explore
> >> techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the
> most
> >> from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and
> register
> >>
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> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
> > Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models.
> Explore
> > techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the
> most
> > from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and
> register
> >
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> > _______________________________________________
> > Emc-developers mailing list
> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
> Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models.
> Explore
> techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most
> from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and
> register
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Emc-developers mailing list
> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore
techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most 
from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
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