On Nov 30, 2013 8:15 AM, <[email protected]>
wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. CeBit talk/demo, status (Michael Haberler)
> 2. Re: CeBit talk/demo, status (Gene Heskett)
> 3. Re: CeBit talk/demo, status (Charles Steinkuehler)
> 4. Re: CeBit talk/demo, status (Michael Haberler)
> 5. Self-Balancing Robot (Charles Steinkuehler)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:52:57 +0100
> From: Michael Haberler <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Emc-developers] CeBit talk/demo, status
> To: EMC developers <[email protected]>
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> After the OSADL Lugano talk & demo on the portable RTAPI / BeagleBone 3D
printer, Alex and me have decided to do another stunt, this time we shoot
for the CeBit 2014 fair and the associated Linux conference track:
http://www.pro-linux.de/news/1/20441/cebit-2014-call-for-papers-gestartet.html.
>
> my goals for this event are:
>
> - we plan to reach a wider audience, and the german CeBit is a good venue
for that, in particular towards the german industrial base
> - we specifically plan to show, and have ready by the time, a second demo
which is clearly 'non-CNC', intended to address the wider scope for process
automation which I feel entirely feasible once the realtime APIs are a bit
more generalized and usable from non-NML clients. This is also a welcome
time goal to finish a piece of work to the extent it's 'reliably demoable'.
> - 'jump the hoop' on a Android-based UI working over the NML successor
stack, with the intent of paving the way for post-PC UIs in a wider form.
>
> My current plan is to take a typical Arduino-based self-balancing robot
kit, rip out the Arduino, replace the RT control by a BB HAL/RTAPI setup,
and have the whole thing remote controlled by an Android-based UI (wifi).
Ideally we could control the robot by using tablet gestures like tilting.
>
> For the hardware, I'm still looking for a kit along these lines:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tkjelectronics/balanduino-balancing-robot-kit-
happy to take suggestions on something cheap and available now; we
would
need a few of these (Alex, me, maybe Charles can be dragged into helping
with the accelerometer/gyro interfaces which would likely be SPI). Any
suggestions welcome. I am specifically looking for a cheap kit, the reason
is: in this case several folks might chip in and work on the same hw base;
this would not be the case if several people start with parts from the
junkbox. Also, the accelerometer and gyro should have separate assemblies
(not everything on a single PCB).
>
> For the software robot side, I'm assuming for now we can replicate the
control algorithm(s) as a HAL setup, including hw interfaces, control
loops, Kalman filter etc. After a cursory look I think that is feasible
even if unchartered territory as far as HAL comps go. It is unclear atm if
motion as it stands will be part of the demo, or if we need to cook up
something more specific or adapt the code.
>
> For the software control-side, this would amount to a Qt-based
application a bit along the lines of gladevcp, plus the zeroMQ and protobuf
stacks which should be readily available for that platform. I am betting on
Alex's UI skills here but looking at his http://qremote.org/ site and
application I think this will work out.
>
> --
>
> I'm writing this to tap into the community wisdom and let you know how
what follows does fit into the overall plan, maybe somebody has applicable
experience with hardware and software of that kind, and recommendations.
>
> I am aware this is a rather ambitious plan, but then I'll take grandiose
failure over not trying any day. We'll keep a fallback position with the 3D
printer 'only' in case this turns out infeasible or not feasible in time,
but there's a good chance it will work out, it's still 3 1/2 months to go.
The next milestone is the paper deadline Jan 6, 2014 so we better know by
then whether it's Plan A or Plan B.
>
> --
>
> As for the status of the NML-replacement work, I am right now molding an
initial implementation of the Status Tracking Protocol into a library API,
since this will be used by several status producers and consumers. Based on
that the next step is to replace the EMC_STATUS usage in task and the
Python linuxcnc module by this STP library API to get this communication
path NML-free. Provided the ship is still afloat, then the other parts like
the Tcl NML API, and then onto the queued command interface.
>
> Due to changes in my private life I am not as free to work on the theme
as I used to, so any help and critical feedback would be welcome -
sometimes I do get the impression I am talking against a wall of solid
disinterest, maybe some not-invented-here here with rather few exceptions
(thanks btw!). Not that this deters me, it's just a bit irritating to see
this complete disinterest in a viable longer term evolution path for the
project. But then the impression might be wrong, or folks just might have
radically different ideas about what 'development' and 'maintenance'
actually mean.
>
>
> - Michael
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 07:03:23 -0500
> From: Gene Heskett <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] CeBit talk/demo, status
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="windows-1256"
>
> On Saturday 30 November 2013 06:56:36 Michael Haberler did opine:
>
> > After the OSADL Lugano talk & demo on the portable RTAPI / BeagleBone 3D
> > printer, Alex and me have decided to do another stunt, this time we
> > shoot for the CeBit 2014 fair and the associated Linux conference
> > track:
> > http://www.pro-linux.de/news/1/20441/cebit-2014-call-for-papers-gestart
> > et.html .
> >
> > my goals for this event are:
> >
> > - we plan to reach a wider audience, and the german CeBit is a good
> > venue for that, in particular towards the german industrial base - we
> > specifically plan to show, and have ready by the time, a second demo
> > which is clearly 'non-CNC', intended to address the wider scope for
> > process automation which I feel entirely feasible once the realtime
> > APIs are a bit more generalized and usable from non-NML clients. This
> > is also a welcome time goal to finish a piece of work to the extent
> > it's 'reliably demoable'. - 'jump the hoop' on a Android-based UI
> > working over the NML successor stack, with the intent of paving the way
> > for post-PC UIs in a wider form.
> >
> > My current plan is to take a typical Arduino-based self-balancing robot
> > kit, rip out the Arduino, replace the RT control by a BB HAL/RTAPI
> > setup, and have the whole thing remote controlled by an Android-based
> > UI (wifi). Ideally we could control the robot by using tablet gestures
> > like tilting.
> >
> > For the hardware, I'm still looking for a kit along these lines:
> > http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tkjelectronics/balanduino-balancing
> > -robot-kit - happy to take suggestions on something cheap and available
> > now; we would need a few of these (Alex, me, maybe Charles can be
> > dragged into helping with the accelerometer/gyro interfaces which would
> > likely be SPI). Any suggestions welcome. I am specifically looking for
> > a cheap kit, the reason is: in this case several folks might chip in
> > and work on the same hw base; this would not be the case if several
> > people start with parts from the junkbox. Also, the accelerometer and
> > gyro should have separate assemblies (not everything on a single PCB).
> >
> > For the software robot side, I'm assuming for now we can replicate the
> > control algorithm(s) as a HAL setup, including hw interfaces, control
> > loops, Kalman filter etc. After a cursory look I think that is feasible
> > even if unchartered territory as far as HAL comps go. It is unclear atm
> > if motion as it stands will be part of the demo, or if we need to cook
> > up something more specific or adapt the code.
> >
> > For the software control-side, this would amount to a Qt-based
> > application a bit along the lines of gladevcp, plus the zeroMQ and
> > protobuf stacks which should be readily available for that platform. I
> > am betting on Alex's UI skills here but looking at his
> > http://qremote.org/ site and application I think this will work out.
> >
> > --
> >
> > I'm writing this to tap into the community wisdom and let you know how
> > what follows does fit into the overall plan, maybe somebody has
> > applicable experience with hardware and software of that kind, and
> > recommendations.
> >
> > I am aware this is a rather ambitious plan, but then I'll take grandiose
> > failure over not trying any day. We'll keep a fallback position with
> > the 3D printer 'only' in case this turns out infeasible or not feasible
> > in time, but there's a good chance it will work out, it's still 3 1/2
> > months to go. The next milestone is the paper deadline Jan 6, 2014 so
> > we better know by then whether it's Plan A or Plan B.
> >
> > --
> >
> > As for the status of the NML-replacement work, I am right now molding an
> > initial implementation of the Status Tracking Protocol into a library
> > API, since this will be used by several status producers and consumers.
> > Based on that the next step is to replace the EMC_STATUS usage in task
> > and the Python linuxcnc module by this STP library API to get this
> > communication path NML-free. Provided the ship is still afloat, then
> > the other parts like the Tcl NML API, and then onto the queued command
> > interface.
> >
> > Due to changes in my private life I am not as free to work on the theme
> > as I used to, so any help and critical feedback would be welcome -
> > sometimes I do get the impression I am talking against a wall of solid
> > disinterest, maybe some not-invented-here here with rather few
> > exceptions (thanks btw!). Not that this deters me, it's just a bit
> > irritating to see this complete disinterest in a viable longer term
> > evolution path for the project. But then the impression might be wrong,
> > or folks just might have radically different ideas about what
> > 'development' and 'maintenance' actually mean.
> >
> >
> > - Michael
>
> Actually, its not "disinterest" Michael, but silent awe at some of the
> stuff you've tackled, generally driven only by your itch. Stuff that will
> be of very good use to linuxcnc in the long view. I like long views, and
> hope mine is long enough to be able to "taste" the fruits of your
> imagination.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Cheers, Gene
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
> When the blind lead the blind they will both fall over the cliff.
> -- Chinese proverb
> A pen in the hand of this president is far more
> dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of
> law-abiding citizens.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 06:12:59 -0600
> From: Charles Steinkuehler <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] CeBit talk/demo, status
> To: EMC developers <[email protected]>
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On 11/30/2013 4:52 AM, Michael Haberler wrote:
> > After the OSADL Lugano talk & demo on the portable RTAPI / BeagleBone
> > 3D printer, Alex and me have decided to do another stunt, this time
> > we shoot for the CeBit 2014 fair and the associated Linux conference
> > track:
> >
http://www.pro-linux.de/news/1/20441/cebit-2014-call-for-papers-gestartet.html
>
> Sounds great!
>
> I'll help with at least the HAL component stuff and wherever else I can.
> IIRC, pretty much all of the control for a self-balancing 'bot can be
> done stand-alone in HAL as long as there's a way to update a few
> settings (like desired speed) from an outside process.
>
> I am also looking forward to using the new messaging stuff with my 3D
> printers, but have recently begun working on building a couple new
> machines and haven't been spending as much time on LinuxCNC (that will
> change as soon as I get the machines running enough to need some control
> software). These machines are non-Cartesian and require trig functions
> in their inverse kinematics, so they can't run real-time on an Arduino
> controller without pre-processing the gcode. The two machines I'm
> building are a Wally and a Simpson, both from Nicholas Seward's
> ConceptFORGE:
>
> http://conceptforge.org/
>
> I'm not sure the Balanduino will be available in time, but it would make
> a good platform if it is. I'll want to build one of whatever you decide
> to go with, so keep me in the loop.
>
> Good luck! It sounds like a lot of fun!
>
> --
> Charles Steinkuehler
> [email protected]
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 14:28:38 +0100
> From: Michael Haberler <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] CeBit talk/demo, status
> To: EMC developers <[email protected]>
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Charles,
>
> Am 30.11.2013 um 13:12 schrieb Charles Steinkuehler <
[email protected]>:
>
> > On 11/30/2013 4:52 AM, Michael Haberler wrote:
> >> After the OSADL Lugano talk & demo on the portable RTAPI / BeagleBone
> >> 3D printer, Alex and me have decided to do another stunt, this time
> >> we shoot for the CeBit 2014 fair and the associated Linux conference
> >> track:
> >>
http://www.pro-linux.de/news/1/20441/cebit-2014-call-for-papers-gestartet.html
> >
> > Sounds great!
> >
> > I'll help with at least the HAL component stuff and wherever else I can.
> > IIRC, pretty much all of the control for a self-balancing 'bot can be
> > done stand-alone in HAL as long as there's a way to update a few
> > settings (like desired speed) from an outside process.
>
> yes, I think so too. The shopping list I currently see is:
>
> - accelerometer and gyro HAL drivers. That really just needs settling for
particular chips, and massaging I/O until the desired values arrive in HAL
pins.
> - motor H-bridge and position feedback: that should be doable with stock
components - PID, PWM, encoder
> - the Kalman filter would be a HAL component; while I'm less than firm
about the math involved the effort seems entirely doable in an RT component
(example:
https://github.com/TKJElectronics/KalmanFilter/blob/master/Kalman.h)
> - UI: I would think the current HALrcomp functionality would be good
enough for that project; it's a few hundred lines of Python code RT-side
and about the same as gladevcp (in fact halwidgets) extension; it's just
Python/Gtk2 right now but I would think that could be wired into a Qt5
framework in time to run on an Android
> - the zeromq and protobuf stacks. Those should be 'as distributed' (says
the theory).
>
> So the gladevcp version would be doable pretty much now, modulo
drivers/special components, and assuming command (speed/direction)
injection via gladevcp pins is good enough. It would be extracool to
include remote stripcharting of key variables with halscope, but that is an
issue I havent looked into yet. It might even be HALrcomp does that just
fine too. Again PyGTK, not Qt as of now.
>
>
> > I am also looking forward to using the new messaging stuff with my 3D
> > printers,
>
> let me respond to that under separate headline, because new API's alone
arent enough to remove some fundamental restrictions, and that would
suggest discussing in a thread of its own; I need to sort my thoughts on
this a bit first
>
> > but have recently begun working on building a couple new
> > machines and haven't been spending as much time on LinuxCNC (that will
> > change as soon as I get the machines running enough to need some control
> > software). These machines are non-Cartesian and require trig functions
> > in their inverse kinematics, so they can't run real-time on an Arduino
> > controller without pre-processing the gcode. The two machines I'm
> > building are a Wally and a Simpson, both from Nicholas Seward's
> > ConceptFORGE:
> >
> > http://conceptforge.org/
>
> hm, that would be an interesting spin on the story, assuming the parts
are 3D printed: use the first incarnation (3D printer) to build the parts
of the second demo.
>
> > I'm not sure the Balanduino will be available in time,
>
> yes, that's my concern too, I need something orderable with code and
parts to go now, and without selling the farm to do so
>
> your above idea is worth thinking through. It's just that the machines
you referred to are too 'CNCish' for what I have in mind; isnt there some
3d-printed self balancing robot..?
>
> > but it would make
> > a good platform if it is. I'll want to build one of whatever you decide
> > to go with, so keep me in the loop.
>
> I certainly will
>
> -m
>
> >
> > Good luck! It sounds like a lot of fun!
> >
> > --
> > Charles Steinkuehler
> > [email protected]
> >
> >
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 08:14:40 -0600
> From: Charles Steinkuehler <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Emc-developers] Self-Balancing Robot
> To: EMC developers <[email protected]>
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On 11/30/2013 7:28 AM, Michael Haberler wrote:
> > Charles,
> >
> > Am 30.11.2013 um 13:12 schrieb Charles Steinkuehler
> > <[email protected]>:
> >
> >> I'm not sure the Balanduino will be available in time,
> >
> > yes, that's my concern too, I need something orderable with code and
> > parts to go now, and without selling the farm to do so
> >
> > your above idea is worth thinking through. It's just that the
> > machines you referred to are too 'CNCish' for what I have in mind;
> > isnt there some 3d-printed self balancing robot..?
>
> Thingiverse has a couple:
>
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:83091
>
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:25531
>
> The first one looks pretty modular, with most of the parts coming from
> Pololu (so likely purchasable w/o significant time delay).
>
> --
> Charles Steinkuehler
> [email protected]
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
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