Martin Thanks for the comprehensive reply to my post.
I have the following comments:- >The UK EMC regulations do not say >the DoC is signed by the responsible person. They say the DoC must be >"signed by or on behalf of the manufacturer or his authorised representative >and identify that signatory". Sorry to be pedantic but the UK Statutory Instrument 1992 No.2372 does not contain the above quote. This quote is from EC EMC Guidelines which therefore clarify the issue. >The question always arises as to who ends up in court. As an example, if >the DoC is signed in the USA, for a product made in Mexico, being sold by >distributors in 10 of the member states in the EU, with the authorised rep >in Belgium acting as the responsible person and there is a court case for >infringement of the UK EMC regulations, who ends up in court? The action is >taken in UK by the Trading Standards Officers against the person placing the >product on the market in the UK. The answer is the distributor. The UK has >no jurisdiction over the authorised rep in Belgium or the manufacturer >outside the EU. UK Trading Standards tell me that in the above example the prosecution would be handed over to the EC country of residence of "the responsible person" who keeps the documentation - in this case Belgium. However the UK distributor could be in the firing line if UK Trading Standards were not happy with the result. Thanks again for your excellent response Allan ________________________________________ In message <E17783957970D21193D40080AD1CA3E20526C5@SERVER>, Martin Green <[email protected]> writes >It is always interesting to read the "legal" interpretation of these >documents. I now understand why lawyers make so much money. > >If you have the staying power you might find this or interest/value, >otherwise hit the delete button! > >The interpretation below is incorrect. The UK EMC regulations do not say >the DoC is signed by the responsible person. They say the DoC must be >"signed by or on behalf of the manufacturer or his authorised representative >and identify that signatory". > >They also say the that DoC must give the name and address of the responsible >person and where that person is not the manufacturer, of the manufacturer. > >For those who read this stuff and are not used to the arcane legal words >inside UK Statutory Instruments this is often difficult to understand. The >problem is no one else in the EU gives guidance to the manufacturers who are >trying to CE mark their equipment correctly. The guidance documents from >the EU commission are often confusing as well. So I have tried to explain >the "legal" interpretation as understood by some very senior lawyers in UK >with whom we have dealings. > >The way the EU tends to consider this is that the "responsible person" is >the person (living body) who issues the DoC and holds the certification >documentation, or evidence of conformity, in the EU (test reports/TCF/EC >Type examination certificate etc.) > >This is not necessarily the person who signs the DoC. The person signing >the DoC is the person who legally "binds" the manufacturer to the claims in >the DoC - as with a contract signatory. > >As the only authorities who may want to see the documentation are in the EU, >the responsible person must be in the EU as well. If the manufacturer is in >the EU he does not need an authorised rep (although he may appoint one) and >by default he would be the responsible person. > >Therefore you can think of it rather in the same way as signing a contract >for buying a house. The person who is legally purchasing the house signs >the contract. The contract can then be given to a third party such as a >lawyer for safe keeping and making available to anyone who legally needs to >see it. Of course if the house, new owner and lawyer all reside in the same >town, why give the contract to the lawyer to keep? > >So the basic rules are: > >1. If the manufacturer is located outside the EU, (including Switzerland) >then he must appoint an authorised representative to act on his behalf. > >2. The manufacturer or his authorised representative in the EU holds the >documentation and issues the DoC and is therefore the responsible person. >If the manufacturer does not appoint an authorised representative, or the >authorised representative is located outside the EU (why have one!) the >default is that the responsible person becomes the person who supplies >(places the product on the market) the apparatus. > >3. The person who signs the DoC can be anyone who is authorised by the >manufacturer to do so. Usually it is a manager or officer, but that person >is legally binding the manufacturer to the claims in the DoC, so it must be >some one authorised to do so. > >Naturally the EU messes things up a bit because the machinery directive >allows the responsible person to be outside the EU. But there are very >special provisions associated with that. The medical devices directive >requires the appointment of an authorised rep in the EU to register Class I >products and some other directives do not mention the need for either an >authorised rep or a responsible person. It is all very confusing, but the >general recommendations are: > >1. If the manufacturer is outside the EU then appoint an authorised rep to >act on your behalf. (This person must be inside the EU to hold the >documentation). >2. Formally appoint the authorised rep to be your responsible person and >hold the technical documentation, hold a copy of the DoC, and issue the DoC >to anyone who needs it. >3. You can, if you want, have your authorised rep (legally appointed) sign >the DoC. He is then empowered to bind your company to the claims in the >DoC. Alternatively you can sign the DoC yourself. As the DoC is a legal >document then it must be signed by someone who is authorised to do so - as >said before. If that person is no longer alive or with the company, >contract law does not negate the historical validity of contracts because a >person is no longer living, or doing something whereby he is no longer >authorised to sign documents. Therefore the DoC remains valid for as long >as the claims are valid. The signatory signed it on behalf of the company, >not as an individual. If a new DoC is required, because the equipment has >been modified you cannot get the original person to sign it again because >his signed the first version. Besides digging up the dead is illegal in the >EU! Therefore the new DoC is signed to bind the manufacturer and that then >does not require resigning - unless it is reissued. > >The question always arises as to who ends up in court. As an example, if >the DoC is signed in the USA, for a product made in Mexico, being sold by >distributors in 10 of the member states in the EU, with the authorised rep >in Belgium acting as the responsible person and there is a court case for >infringement of the UK EMC regulations, who ends up in court? The action is >taken in UK by the Trading Standards Officers against the person placing the >product on the market in the UK. The answer is the distributor. The UK has >no jurisdiction over the authorised rep in Belgium or the manufacturer >outside the EU. Even the user does not go to court unless he/she is causing >an interference problem. There is therefore a significant benefit to >distributors and reps to ensure that they are selling correctly certified >equipment. Ignorance is no defence in law! > >For those who managed to read to the end of this I hope it answers some of >the questions you may have. There are always silly exceptions to the rules, >as with the machinery directive - but there you go, no one is perfect. > >Martin Green >Technology International (Europe) Ltd. >Tel: (44) 1793 783137 >Fax: (44) 1793 782310 > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Price, Ed [SMTP:[email protected]] >> Sent: 22 November 1999 19:46 >> To: '[email protected]' >> Cc: '[email protected]' >> Subject: FW: Copy of: D of C - Who Signs? >> >> >> Posted for: [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Allan G. Carr [SMTP:[email protected]] >> > Sent: Monday, November 22, 1999 7:14 AM >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: Re: Copy of: D of C - Who Signs? >> > >> > Chris >> > >> > I do not think the UK S.I. No. 2372 1992 on EMC implies that the >> > "Responsible Person" is a company. >> > >> > ---------------- Quote from UK S.I. No. 2372 1992 on EMC --------------- >> > "Responsible Person" in relation to relevant apparatus means- >> > (a) the manufacturer thereof; >> > (b) the manufacturer's authorised representative; or >> > (c) where the manufacturer is not established in the Community and HE >> > HAS not appointed an authorised representative, the PERSON who supplies >> > the relevant apparatus. >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > >> > N.B. My capitalisation for emphasis. >> > >> > If these rules were indicating a company I think the "HE HAS" in (c) >> > above should have said "THEY HAVE". >> > >> > >> > >> > Allan >> > _____________________ >> > >> > In article <[email protected]>, Chris Duprs >> > <[email protected]> writes >> > > >> > > >> > >---------- Forwarded Message ---------- >> > > >> > >From: Chris Duprs, 100014,3703 >> > >TO: "Tony Reynolds", INTERNET:[email protected] >> > >DATE: 11/11/99 20:31 >> > > >> > >RE: Copy of: D of C - Who Signs? >> > > >> > >Hi Tony. >> > > >> > >You asked... >> > >< In other words is it acceptable to issue D of C's to >> > > suppliers/customers which have been signed by someone who has left >> > the >> > > >> > > company.> >> > > >> > >In the case of EMC in the UK, the Electromagnetic Compatibility >> > >Regulations, statutory instrument SI 1992/2372, state that the >> > declaration >> > >be signed by a 'esponsible person',. But in the 'Definition of Terms >> in >> > >the front, the term 'responsible person' is defined as a company! >> > > >> > >If the person who signs the documents retires, moves, dies, or >> whatever, >> > >resposibility for the declaration simply moves upwards to the next >> > >responsible person or a Director. Basically, Directors still get the >> > blame >> > >if the original signer goes, after all, it is their company. >> > > >> > >Chris Dupres >> > >Surrey, UK. >> > > >> > >--------- >> > >This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. >> > >To cancel your subscription, send mail to [email protected] >> > >with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the >> > >quotes). For help, send mail to [email protected], >> > >[email protected], [email protected], or >> > >[email protected] (the list administrators). >> > > >> > > >> > >> > -- >> > Allan G.Carr B.Sc.(Elec.Eng) AMIEE | AGC-Tel Consultants Ltd >> > Telecommunications Consultant | Tel: +44(0)141-956-2506 >> > European Approvals Specialist | Fax: +44(0)141-956-5347 >> > 62 Crawford Road, Milngavie | Voice Mail: +44(0)1252-30-3062 >> > Glasgow, G62 7LF, Scotland | http://www.acarr.demon.co.uk >> >> --------- >> This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. >> To cancel your subscription, send mail to [email protected] >> with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the >> quotes). For help, send mail to [email protected], >> [email protected], [email protected], or >> [email protected] (the list administrators). >> >> -- Allan G.Carr B.Sc.(Elec.Eng) AMIEE | AGC-Tel Consultants Ltd Telecommunications Consultant | Tel: +44(0)141-956-2506 European Approvals Specialist | Fax: +44(0)141-956-5347 62 Crawford Road, Milngavie | Voice Mail: +44(0)1252-30-3062 Glasgow, G62 7LF, Scotland | http://www.acarr.demon.co.uk --------- This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to [email protected] with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], or [email protected] (the list administrators).
