I believe Gert is 100% correct in that the GS Mark is not legally required in Germany but for most standards my understanding is, for most types pf equipment, this has always been the case even before the CE Mark came into existence. For the equipment I worked on at TUV, EDP, Home Audio, Lab Equipment, I don't believe the GS Mark was ever legally required. All you needed to do was prove compliance to the German Equipment Safety Law and getting a GS Mark was the most recognized way to do this. You could actually "self declare" if you wanted to but of course many large retail customers required a GS Mark on products as a condition to buy them from you in the pre CE days. Concerning tying EMC to Safety for GS Mark Approval, I worked for a TUV for 14 years and worked on hundreds of GS Mark licensed projects, to EN/IEC 60950, 60065, and proof of EMC compliance was never a requirement for GS Mark Certification. For these types of products the GS Mark Certification was always based strictly on the LVD and the associated Safety Standards. We presently get GS and CB certification for EN/IEC60065 for all of our powered products with TUV and are not required to show proof of EMC compliance in any case. IN the pre CE days I do believe there were some types of equipment which did legally require a GS Mark and where proof of EMC compliance was required, i.e. patient contact Medical devices I believe, but this was not the case for all types of equipment? I would be interested if anyone can show me where in the German Equipment Safety Law or any other regulation both Safety and EMC are required for a GS Mark?? I also thought GS certification was regulated by the German Government, BZT??, so I would expect there would be a minimum set of requirements that every Accredited lab must follow?? Horst does this sound correct? Looking forward to more information on this subject
From: Ing. Gert Gremmen [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:31 AM To: [email protected]; Gary McInturff; EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: RE: Legal requirements linking GS and EMC Within the European safety regulations, no mark has a legal background but the CE-mark. All marks like KEMA,VDE,TUV,GS (and other) are private marks with no EC-legal value, and they indeed may require anything from the applicant they want to , including John's Pound of Flesh (JOPOF) ;<). Before CE, these marks and the associated test houses were the only way to obtain any proof of safety for your product, and thats why these marks obtained some type of market domination. For historic or other reasons, many companies still require one of these marks, if you want to qualify for their purchases..... You may contest or comply , depending on your position in negociation. Of course, the requirements to go with these marks may include more severe testing, and possibly enhanced safety, to be judged by you and your clients. Inside any EC-country, no LEGAL requirements MAY exist that demand more then CE requirements, unless aspects are adressed, not regulated under the CE new approach directives. The CE mark was meant to GUARANTEE free movement of goods between EC members, addressing consumer SAFETY as a main goal. I do not know much about the legal backgrounds of the GS mark in Germany, but these laws may in some aspects be contradictory to EC-law, if they prohibite free movement of goods. Anyway, some EC members still do not fully comply to EC regulations, ate least not to the spirit of it. Regarding Ken's remark: Safety of a product may well be influenced by EMC (mainly Immunity), and the EMC directive does NOT address product safety specifically. So in order to obtain an overall view of a product's safety, EMC reports may be valuable. ( althoug the emission data may not be the first to address) The GS mark does address overall safety, and therefore requires EMC data. Many Low Voltage Harmonized standards do however, address safety aspects, and many of these standards have also been harmonized under the EMC directive. The safety aspects of EMC are still underexposed , however, within EC regulations. Regards, Gert Gremmen Approvals manager ====================================================== ce-test, qualified testing Member of EMC committee CENELEC/IEC + Independent Consultancy Services + Compliance Testing and Design for CE + Improvement of product quality and reliability + Testing services according to: Electro magnetic Compatibility 89/336/EC Electrical Safety 73/23/EC Medical Devices 93/42/EC Radio & Telecommunication Terminal equipment 99/5/EC Website: www.cetest.nl (english) www.ce-test.nl (dutch) Phone : +31 10 415 24 26 Fax : +31 10 415 49 53 ====================================================== From: [email protected] mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Horst Haug Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:33 AM To: Gary McInturff; EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: AW: Legal requirements linking GS and EMC Gary, as one of the GS mark certification organisations I like to give some explanations. The GS mark is the only safety mark backed up by laws in Europe. The regulations for the GS-mark are defined in the German law for safety. It is possible to apply for the status as a GS mark certification body and test lab by all test and certification organisations located in Europe. The audits are done by the German government. The GS mark is a mark for the user. It should show the conformity to safety, EMC, it includes to check the user manual, it contains somehow the functionality of the product to be checked. The safety check should be based on standards, but the law defines an overall safety for the user, so sometimes GS means to check more like for example misuse. GS is not a quality mark, so we do not check, if a product lasts for one year of for longer time. The GS mark test houses and certification bodies are required to have an insurance. In case of issues on the market there is a defined escalation path. By law, it is not allowed to issue a GS mark only based on safety testing without taking care of EMC. If there is no EMC report available, then you might get a trade mark label like INNOVA mark, VDE, TÜV or others, but this is just showing, that one test house has done testing for safety. With best regards Horst INNOVA Product Service GmbH Ampferweg 6 87677 Stöttwang Tel: 08345-952727 Fax : 08345-952729 Von: [email protected] [ ailto:[email protected]]Im Auftrag von Gary McInturff Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Mai 2004 01:13 An: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Betreff: Legal requirements linking GS and EMC Gents, The claim has once more been put forth by a major European based NRTL doing business in the us that they cannot grant a GS mark for ITE equipment unless they have the emissions data during the safety review. I believe that they may want it but it is not required under statutes, and in fact can hamper the certification process by turning a somewhat parallel process into an absolutely serial process. About the only connection that comes to mind is the X and Y capacitors - at least in most cases. They have safety requirements as well as EMC requirements. So if one goes through safety with parts that are identified as safety critical items and then have to make changes because of EMC one has to return to the safety agency and have a review of those components. If not the factory inspections would show a non-approved (sorry not a good choice of words) to maintain the agency mark. But the EMC data does not need to be presented. In my opinion, and you all may well be about to change that, is that the safety NRTL has no rights under the LVD, EMC, or the CE marking process to tie the two processes into their approval. If there isn't such a legal requirement I will be dropping the vendor and move on to one of the many others who can now provide the same services. If there is such a law I'm stuck and grudgingly concede. Thoughts? Thanks Gary McInturff
