Thanks Neil. You've confirmed a position I've been taking, that we have to meet the 10mW outdoors Ch. 11-13 limit for France, or we are Class 2 for ALL countries.
But my specific question was about the 2400-2420MHz limit for the 2 "overseas" locations - Guyane and La Reunion - as listed under France in Recommendation 70-03. The Sub-class 22 document you linked me to does not mention that "derogation", so which one is the official requirement? Is the Guyane/Reunion derogation a hard requirement or not? Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Compliance Engineering Manager Xantrex Technology Inc. e-mail: [email protected] web: www.xantrex.com Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend. Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From: Barker, Neil Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 12:04 AM To: Jim Eichner; [email protected] Subject: RE: 0dBi antennas? Jim, Devices are only Class 1 if they conform to the harmonized spectrum usage definitions. For applications such as WLAN this is defined by Sub-class 22, which can be found at <http://www.ero.dk/1A881188-D224-4232-8492-57A432D4495F?frames=no&;>. Because of the French limitation, Class 1 is defined as being limited to 10mW for outdoor use from channels 10 to 13. This applies for all countries in the EEA despite the fact that all others permit 100mW for all channels. Applications using 100mW in channels 10 to 13 are therefore, by definition, Class 2 in all countries. This is probably the main reason that EU Notified Bodies estimate that over 80% of WiFi devices in the EU are illegal and thus likely to be subject to closer scrutiny by the authorities in the future. Another problem is that there are many WiFi devices that can emit >100mW across all channels, and these therefore do not conform to Class 1, even if restricted to Channels 1 to 9. In my experience most countries will not permit >100mW, even as a Class 2 device. For a listing of all Class 1 definitions go to http:\\www.ero.dk and follow the navigation Deliverables -> R&TTE Directive where you will find a list of all Sub-classes within Class 1. Each of these has a link to a pdf file with the definition of that sub-class. Best regards Neil R. Barker CEng MIET FSEE MIEEE Manager Quality Engineering e2v technologies (uk) ltd 106 Waterhouse Lane Chelmsford Essex CM1 2QU UK Tel: (+44) 1245 453616 Fax: (+44) 1245 453571 Mob: (+44) 7801 723735 P Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: Jim Eichner Sent: 19 April 2007 23:16 To: [email protected] Cc: Jim Eichner Subject: RE: 0dBi antennas? Thanks for the responses for far everyone. Dave: Unfortunately we have the 10mW requirement at both ends of our system, and one of them is not transmit only. Still that's a useful tip - thanks. One more question for the group. In http://www.ero.dk/documentation/docs/doc98/official/pdf/REC7003E.PDF on page 35 lists Guyane and La Reunion as having a ban on outdoor transmissions in the range of 2400-2420 MHz. Those locations are outside of Europe, so if we aren't selling there, can we transmit outdoors in that frequency range and still consider ourselves a Class 1 device? Or are we non-harmonized because we don't meet that derogation, even though the locations are outside Europe? Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Manager - Compliance Engineering and SW Test Xantrex Technology Inc. phone: (604) 422-2546 fax: (604) 420-1591 e-mail: [email protected] web: www.xantrex.com Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From: David Cuthbert Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:25 PM To: 'David Cuthbert'; Jim Eichner; [email protected] Subject: RE: 0dBi antennas? Jim, If your need is for transmit only you can choose to run the power up fairly high and burn it off in a resistive network. The network can be configured to drive the antenna thru a high resistance (think constant antenna current) and then pad the TX end of the network to 50 ohms using a shunt resistor. This provides a wideband and inefficient antenna. The advantage is that it is not affected as much by "environmental detuning" such as bodies very close to it. Then it can meet the E.I.R.P. test under the ideal test conditions yet still work well in the field. I have used this technique a couple of times with good results. Dave Cuthbert From: David Cuthbert Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 2:18 PM To: 'Jim Eichner'; '[email protected]' Subject: RE: 0dBi antennas? Jim, For an antenna producing a dipole-like radiation pattern you will need at least 3 dB of attenuation. If it has multiple lobes the ERP can exceed 10 mW in certain directions. Most DUTs will produce a dipole-like pattern with one or more lobes. The "GND" portion (case, PCB, etc.) opposite the whip antenna acts as the second half of a dipole with the whip being the first half. If you attentuate the receiver path too you raise the receiver noise figure by 3 dB. Dave Cuthbert Linear Technology From: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:09 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Jim Eichner Subject: 0dBi antennas? We have a situation that has me scratching my head. An ISM-band wireless device that we are using has lowest output power setting of 10mW. We are trying to limit our power across the whole band to 10mW e.i.r.p so that we can obey the France 10mW restriction for outdoor use in channels 11-13. So we need a 0dBi whip antenna and we can't find one. I'm starting to wonder if the wireless device designers just plain got it wrong by not having a lower output power setting. Q1: My practical question is does anyone have a source they can point us to? We're looking specifically for a 0dBi whip antenna, articulated, terminated with a coax pigtail lead and a U.FL connector, but manufacturers can often customize terminations so the main parameters are 0dBi and whip. The search has led me to revisit the theory, in particular that antenna gain is really a measure of directionality and is related to the signal magnitude in the pointing direction, relative to that of an ideal isotropic radiator. Q2: My theory question is does a real life 0dBi antenna really exist? Isn't that an ideal isotropic radiator and therefore non-existent? Or are mfr's taking a directional antenna that has gain and adding (or designing in) attenuation to overcome the gain? Thanks in advance for any help and insight the forum can offer. Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Compliance Engineering Manager Xantrex Technology Inc. e-mail: [email protected] web: www.xantrex.com Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible but not isotropic friend. Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. Sent by E2V TECHNOLOGIES PLC or a member of the E2V group of companies. A company registered in England and Wales. Company number: 04439718. Registered address: 106 Waterhouse Lane, Chelmsford, Essex, CM1 2QU, UK. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to [email protected] Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas [email protected] Mike Cantwell [email protected] For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: [email protected] David Heald: [email protected] All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________
