This isn’t about solving problems, it is about hunting witches. Throughout history it has always been easier to hunt witches than solve the problems the witches were supposed to have caused. But the original witch hunters had it easier than those today; they focused on an unequivocal fact like a bad harvest or a run of bad luck, then cast about to find someone to blame it on. The witch hunters today can’t get away with that, so they (mis)use statistics to “prove” the witch is guilty.
Our Founding Fathers wisely and with great foresight required that the decadal national census be measured, not aided by predictive statistics, for the very same reason the last Democrat administration sought to evade that restriction – it is easy to color statistical outcomes the shade you desire. Maybe we ought to have a similar restriction on any legal activity relative to statistics. You can use statistics to to get a clue about a process, but you have to have a non-statistical definitive mechanism explaining the process before you take legal action or pass laws. So for instance your physician could advise you to stop smoking based on the large number of smokers with lung cancer and the small number of nonsmokers with lung cancer, but until the precise causal link between smoking and lung cancer was proven, you could not legally restrict smoking, let alone sue the tobacco industry. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 ________________________________ From: "Pettit, Ghery" <[email protected]> List-Post: [email protected] List-Post: [email protected] List-Post: [email protected] Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:09:14 -0700 To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Gert Gremmen <[email protected]> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Conversation: Another Cancer Scare? Subject: RE: Another Cancer Scare? An awful lot of discussion about something that may or may not happen. If we put this much energy into finding a way to prevent prostate cancer (which will affect 1 in 6 men) it would be a more useful endeavor. But, I guess that doesn’t sell newspapers. Ghery Pettit ________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Fred Townsend Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 2:05 PM To: Gert Gremmen Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: Another Cancer Scare? This discussion may be delayed but I suspect it will go on for a long time. What next cell phones as a weapon? Opps, sorry they are already used in IEDs. How about long range popcorn popping? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System. If this will give you a headache, surely the lawsuits for brain cancer can't be far away. Fred Townsend DC to Light Gert Gremmen wrote: To end this discussion (??!??), my opinion about this subject: EM fields of different frequencies and power levels will probably impact our body. So does eating salt, fat food, driving cars and talking loud. Reading email is probably harmful to your eyes. Mains harmonics will cause induced currents in your body; doctors and physicians will sooner or later day prove a correlation between cancer and cell phones. The same correlation they found between eating meat and cancer, and between most of the actions of life and cancer. I think most of these correlations are within the noise margins of risk and life. Each factor exists and is true, but is small compared to the total risk, and even more important, removing one source of cancer risk won’t reduce the total risk. (like summing 100 noise sources, and removing one) Annihilating all sources of cancer is impossible, and we have to live with the fact that now and then one of us is to die early because of cancer. We live on a dangerous planet, radiated by damaging sun radiation, dangerous natural radio-activity, stress causing partners and children to live with, and all kinds of small risks of dangerous nature. If you cannot live with the risk of cancer from your cellular, stop crossing roads and driving cars, flying planes and eating at MacDonald’s. Stop living. If there were a substantial risk on cancer by exposure to EM-waves, this would have been proven without doubt a long time ago. Like happened for radio-activity. The “inventor” of radio-activity (M. Curie) died of it. Like the substantial risks caused by exposure for certain chemicals and cancer. Wise design incorporates reducing any source of energy impacting the human body, for numerous reasons, not just cancer. Low power transmitters allow for longer standby time, and smaller batteries, reducing environmental impact and increasing quality of the product, as well as lower costs, and yes , preventing costly investigations that have been done over and over, trying to quantify a neglectable effect. Gert Gremmen Van: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Namens Tang, George Verzonden: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 9:19 PM Aan: [email protected] CC: [email protected] Onderwerp: RE: Another Cancer Scare? Thank you. George ________________________________ From: dBaron [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 12:00 PM To: Tang, George; 'Monrad Monsen' Cc: [email protected] Subject: RE: Another Cancer Scare? Sir: The intermittent, registration communications between a mobile phone and its base station are milliseconds in duration at intervals of 5-10 minutes; minimal exposures. Regards, Dave Baron, PE Consulting Engineer Electromagnetic Field Safety Austin, TX Voice: 512 917-8346 Fax: 206 203-0605 From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tang, George Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 1:53 PM To: Monrad Monsen; [email protected] Subject: RE: Another Cancer Scare? This is very good information. But has any one done any study on the effects (if any) of cell phone fields on body internal organs? We know that cell phones make intermittent communications with cell towers even when they are not in use. Therefore, by simply carrying the cell phone with us, we are already exposed to the cell phone transmitting energy. Thus, it really does not matter if we are making long calls or short calls – we are being radiated 24 hours a day by just wearing the cell phone on the body. Thanks for addressing this. George Tang ________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Monrad Monsen Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 7:18 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Another Cancer Scare? This has been an interesting discussion. There is definitely a lot of interest in this subject. Our EMC chapter in Denver heard a talk on this subject from an EMC Society Distinguished Lecturer (Dr. Michel Ianoz) on July 26, 2004. This presentation addressed the subject of "Biological and Health Effects of Electromagnetic Fields" in a very organized and detailed manner using three approaches: * Calculation and measurement (engineers) * Biological effects (biologists and engineers) * Effects on health (medical doctors and statisticians) I was impressed with the variety of approaches that have been used to study the topic. He concluded that more studies needed to be done, but basically the health risk is at such a low level that it is difficult to evaluate. This contrasts greatly from the clear health risks of heavy smoking. But we should be concerned when we see that moss growth and other biological organisms are affected when exposed to electromagnetic energy. Certainly, the power limits and restrictions used today greatly reduce this concern. I have no problems using cell phones next to my ear for short calls, but I prefer to use an ear bud or the speaker phone function for longer calls to keep the phone farther >from my brain. By going to our chapter web site, you can see the record of the meeting (http://www.ewh.ieee.org/r5/denver/rock mountainemc/archive/2004/July/index.html) and the actual slides he presented (http://www.ewh.ieee.org/r5/denver/rock mountainemc/archive/2004/July/bioeffect.pdf). Enjoy! Monrad Monsen Chairman, Rocky Mountain Chapter of EMC Society (RMCEMC) of IEEE -- Monrad L. Monsen Compliance Program Manager Storage Group Sun Microsystems [email protected] 303.272.9612 Office - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to [email protected] Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas [email protected] Mike Cantwell [email protected] For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: [email protected] David Heald: [email protected] All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc- ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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