Whatever happened to the time when a good engineer could repair his own dipole, fix minor front end analyzer problems, be able to tell the difference between 20dBm and 20dBuV, know what dBm and dBuV meant, understand you can't put the output of a 100W transmitter directly into the front end of the measuring instrument without proper attenuation, understanding what attenuation was, understand what was actually happening during a test automated or otherwise.
In the rush for speed, we lost a lot. Automation, under control, can be a good thing. Automation, without proper control, only gives a lot of paper with meaningless unsubstantiated number. Of course that is just my opinion. Dennis Ward Director of Engineering American TCB Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry www.atcb.com 703-847-4700 fax 703-847-6888 direct - 703-880-4841 From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pettit, Ghery Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:47 AM To: Kunde, Brian; Derek Walton Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs At least your tech was there. We'd have him doing something else while the chamber took care of itself. :-) Multitasking, that's the name of the game. From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:45 AM To: Pettit, Ghery; Derek Walton Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs Today, I walk by the test station; the EUT has fallen off the table and is on fire, the sprinklers have shot down through the ceiling spraying 950 gallons of water per minute in to the chamber, the mast rope got twisted on the pulley and broke, the BiConLog antenna is smashed on the floor in a hundred pieces, all while the technician is playing a fishing game on his IPHONE. Oh, what I wouldn't give for the good ol' days. I'm not asking for much, just to pay attention to what is going on even during an automated scan. From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:50 PM To: Kunde, Brian; Derek Walton Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs Ah, for the good old days when the receiver was tuned by hand, one hand on the tuning knob, the other on the IF gain / slide back / RF attenuator. Note the level on the scope, disconnect the antenna and connect the IG, adjust the IG to match the level noted on the scope and write that number down. Apply antenna factor by hand and move to the next signal. Naw! I like automated tests. At least in an ambient free environment like a chamber. But, you should have your techs do it by hand a few times so they'll really appreciate the automation. And, did I mention that sometimes you did the old way in really "interesting" places? Like, Adak? :-) Ghery From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:45 AM To: Derek Walton; Pettit, Ghery Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs You bring up a good point. You must control your environment if there is any possible way changes in that environment can affect or even put into doubt your test results. We have done hours of testing then realize a customer had been playing a PSP game system in the area. Now whether it affected our test results or not, it had put our test results into doubt. So we had to perform more testing to verify our results. So, I would make it clear to customers, engineers, and even your own testers that no additional electronic devices are to be introduced into your testing environment unless it has been verified not to affect the test results. I also agree that a good and well trained test technician should be able to notice and track down any new emission source within a reasonable amount of time, but within an automated test system like ours, they tend to get a little lazy. Push a button, get a cup of coffee. Man I hate that. The Other Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:21 AM To: Pettit, Ghery Cc: Luke Turnbull; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Mobile Phones in EMC Labs Hi all, just a thought.... If you're an accredited lab you are supposed to evaluate your working environment: I'd include Cell phones in this. Now, I hate banning things, so my first thought is that whoever is running testing should know about mobile Transmitters, from Door openers to cell phones. This is a topic I always discuss when Assessing. Just because things are banned doesn't mean they will not be present. In my lab I use the 4 module HP system, and Sucoflex cables. I do not see signals related to the cell phone in this system. I did when I used low cost cables. I am not advocating the used of a particular brand, just good cables. The power to the four modules is passed through a Xantrex super isolation transformer also: just cos'. Seasons greetings, Derek Walton L F Research Pettit, Ghery wrote: > > I would. Shielding of receivers isn't perfect. We have signs banning > them in our labs. Don't know how well enforced it is. J Guess I'll > have to check the next time I do a quality audit. J J > > Ghery Pettit > > > > *From:* emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] *On Behalf Of > *Luke Turnbull > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:22 AM > *To:* emc-p...@ieee.org > *Subject:* Mobile Phones in EMC Labs > > Hi all, > > Should we ban the use of mobile phones in our test lab (i.e. outside > our test chambers, but in the same EM environment as the sig gens, > spectrum analysers, receivers etc.)? > > Opinions with reasons would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Luke Turnbull > > Conekt is a trading division of TRW Limited > > Registered in England, No. 872948 > > Registered Office Address: Stratford Road, Solihull B90 4AX > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your > e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to > that URL. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <emcp...@ptcnh.net <mailto:emcp...@ptcnh.net>> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your > e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to > that URL. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <emcp...@ptcnh.net <mailto:emcp...@ptcnh.net>> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@ptcnh.net> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@ptcnh.net> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@ptcnh.net> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
