Hi All, I've been following this thread and listening to points and counterpoints. One thing I hear is a lot of idealism, so let me open a different tact.
I've been in the EMC world for bout 31 years. In that time I've seen and experienced a lot: you could argue I grew up with EMC. In these years it seemed like ( and still does to a degree ) every problem faced was different. Sure there were common elements, but the phrase " You learn something new everyday" definitely applies. So from where I stand now, I have collected both common knowledge garnered from the public domain, and also from many many hours of long days, late nights, family unrest, management pressure etc etc etc. The later is what I use now to make my living, saving others from having to relearn that. Again another phrase sums it up " It's not hitting it, it's knowing where to hit it that counts". Before folks go calling me a mean grumpy old man, I would like to point out this crosses the boundaries of intellectual property. To stress this I'd like to point out that Coke dont publish the recipe for it's cola on the web, or teach making it in schools... Nor do companies with commercially sensitive information, or trade secrets willing show others... So where do we draw the line? Schemes exist for people with good ideas to make themselves money, patents for example. But fundamental EMC information isn't really patentable, however keeping it restricted allows many of us to make a living. The alternative is selling experience either as consulting, or for example design guides showing the benefits of using a product. So, I ask myself, why are there not more EMC schools. Well, one reason may be because anyone with useful information is selling it at a much higher profit than rewarded by teaching. It is probably politically incorrect ( but I frankly don't care ) to say that those who can do, those who can't teach. These with useful knowledge sell it. I wonder just how many of us use what we learned in university after several years in the trade? To make things more complex, EMC is not a field that you can train and people apply. For you to take what you have learned and use it requires a flair for the field, and not everyone has this flair. It is more realistic for people to leave school and get fascinated ( or instructed ) by the EMC field. Only if they have the aptitude for this subject do they succeed. I have had many conversations with "EMC Engineers" only to think " Where on earth is that coming from! " OK, back to the topic of improving the EMC awareness of Students leaving school. There are a number of steps we could take: 1) Reconnect with the academic institutions so that they are reminded to teach about non ideal models. 2) Require in the curriculum some recognition of designing to work in "real world" environments. 3) Convince someone like the IEEE to put in place a graduate training scheme ( for this read extra course time ) that complements the "pure" engineering taught in regular semesters. Perhaps taught by engineers not college professors. 4) Use media such as this list group to find what is really lacking in new graduates and fold it back into the courses. I'm sure there are others... but it's time for my coffee. The above comments may or may not reflect my personal opinion, but they do represent a good dose of reality.... Happy holidays, Derek. Cortland Richmond wrote: > When I can be mistaken for Kipling -- even Kipling on an off day -- > that is high praise indeed, > > WRT the physics degrees... my manager has mentioned that the same > math taught him in Physics courses was dry, and the engineering > approach was interesting. But on these matters I am at disadvantage, > as I have an unconventional education and only took the NARTE exam > this August. (That is another story; I could have been grandfathered > in 1993 and thought it an unnecessary expense). > > To the extent that universities educate student ready to learn how > their after they are hired, and that employers want people who don't > have to be trained on-the-job, EMC is, like other disciplines, either > in need of further, practical education, (from the employers' point of > view) or to be teachable later (from the schools' point of view.) > This last approach takes mentors, and in my opinion even more needs > that 10-year-old's experience to work. To a point, internship is > useful, if you can actually use the interns for EMC; I've seen interns > used for various jobs having little to do with their majors. > > If this seems rambling, maybe it it; I am thinking this out as I type, > always a bad idea. > > > Cortland > KA5S > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bill Owsley <mailto:[email protected]> > *To: *Edward Price <mailto:[email protected]>;emc-pstc > <mailto:[email protected]>;[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > *Sent:* 12/16/2008 10:48:01 PM > *Subject:* RE: EMC Eduction and Training > > Having served nearly 40 years ago in the previous most unpopular > war, Kiplings words as quoted by Mr. Cortland give me pause in > the consideration of the question asked. I find wanting, the > general "you" in the quote, and still feel that the ideal of who > the "you" should be, worthy of the price paid, then, and now. > > And now I feel as if I'm changing the diapers of those new > graduates and young engineers that I doubt have ever wriggled a > razors edge across the galena. Their education in the physics of > EM consists of digits. Small wonder they look at me like I'm > speaking some foreign tongue when I talk about the orthogonal E > and H fields propagating along the third axis, all that were > created by time varying voltages or currents. Me thinks the next > apprentice should have a physics degree, double E's should be > double D's for digital designers. > > > - Bill > Indecision may or may not be the problem. > > --- On *Tue, 12/16/08, Cortland Richmond /<[email protected]>/* > wrote: > > From: Cortland Richmond <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: EMC Eduction and Training > To: "Edward Price" <[email protected]>, "emc-pstc" > <[email protected]> > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 9:21 PM > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------- > Ed Price wrote > > Perhaps you can take some comfort from Kipling's words of 125 years > ago, > when he addressed the peculiar way that society only appreciates you > when > they really, really need you: > > For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the > brute!" > But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to > shoot; > An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; > An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees! > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------- > And Cortland Richmond replied: > > Kipling is the soldier's patron saint. I served 21 years: > > (part of a longer work): > > And know our living ever watch, > To ask, as we would do, > Is what you are, worth what we paid? > Is what we paid, worth YOU? > > We are the currency you spend > For freedom, fear, or oil; > Our blood, the coin you pay, > Dark on some foreign soil. > > copyright Cortland RIchmond > > Ahem! > > All said, msny firms seem not to understand that one designs OUT > problems > (EMC or otherwise) and thereby saves money. > > We need someone to speak at the EMC Symposium about the pychology of > getting our employers to do what is right. As it is, I'm turning > into a > (461/DO-160-/Part15)- waving missionary. > > > > Cortland KA5 > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > <[email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to > that URL. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> > David Heald: <[email protected]> > > > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your > e-mail to <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted > to that URL. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > David Heald <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your > e-mail to <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to > that URL. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > David Heald <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]>
