And it's even more fun when "the other guy that doesn't do it" is an EU company being compared to US companies importing into the EU that have to do it.
-Dave From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 3:38 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws And the dreaded - "the other guy doesn't do it why are we" Heavy sigh. By the way not too long ago I saw the pragmatic answer to that. Company A built a product. For whatever reason Company B challenged the EMC. They tested at a lab and sure enough failure. I don't know how badly it failed but it failed. Last seen an EMC engineer and the corporate legal beagle from company B were back at the lab with more than one of the device that failed, and were documenting the results for the pending lawsuit. That was within the last few months so one shouldn't assume it doesn't happen anymore. mac mac From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 12:13 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws Pete, I think you have a good understanding of the situation. You are right; they avoid doing EMC testing because of the cost, but we don't do business that way. When we offer to perform EMC testing on their products for free, they say NO because they would rather be ignorant and ship products not knowing if they pass or fail than to have them tested for free and have to fix them. We asked if we tested their products and found a failure, would they take corrective measures to fix it. Their answer was, "Probably Not, because in the Industrial market no one cares if you meet EMC requirements or not". Hmm. Hearing statements like this makes life tough on an EMC guy who works for a company who always wants to do things right. They look to me for answers or explanations and I have none. Thanks, The Other Brian From: Pete Perkins [mailto:peperkin...@cs.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 2:21 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Cc: Kunde, Brian Subject: RE: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws Interesting discussion. The lack of prior experience with equipment such as this industrial cut-off saw seems to come from folks who do not regularly work with machinery and the Machinery Directive. Having done some of this type of certification work it's clear that the machinery manufacturers want to avoid EMC testing at all costs. They either look at taking advantage of an allowance for large, permanently installed machinery which allows for no EMC testing under certain specified installation conditions or just claim compliance based upon the VFD manufacturers data sheet which usually claims EU compliance when the appropriate, stated filters are installed. In this case, I would expect the component saw mfgr to have done the needed EMC testing and specify appropriate filtering to be used to show compliance. Maybe this is what you are helping with in this case, it's not clear. Oh yes, I remember one situation what filters were stipulated by the VFD/motor manufacturer and asked if they were installed. The response was we installed the input filters (the cheaper ones) but not the output filters (more expensive). A quick calculation showed that it was still cheaper to install the 3 dozen or so output filters than hire the EMC testers to come on-site and provide a compliance report to cover this aspect. Some chagrin was shown, they had not expected to spend U$ 10k or so in either case. So, I'm not surprised at the problem; getting to the proper result will be the demonstration of Brian's magical professional ability (smile a lot while you put it to them). :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org<mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org> _ _ _ _ _ From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 5:12 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws I am not at all familiar with this category of products so please excuse my ignorance which is an industrial cut-off saw with a 5hp electric motor for cutting steel rods, and such. Most of these basic model saws have no high frequency devices and brushless AC motors so they do not generate EMI. However, the more expensive models have Inverters (Frequency Drives) to slow start/stop the motor and act as a break. We evaluated a saw from a company who says they do not require EMC testing on their saws even when they use the Inverter, as long as they follow the installation instructions from the inverter manufacturer (yea, I just about fell out of my chair). We tested one of these saws and failed CISPR 11 Class A Conducted Emissions by 50db (if was a prototype saw not on the market). How do these people sleep at night? So here is my question. Does the US and Canada require Emissions testing on Industrial Saws? Same question for Europe. I assume EN 55011 Class A is mandatory in Europe on such a devices. Please confirm (sanity check). Thanks, The Other Brian ________________________________ LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. 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