Check out this free download (google it): “Electronic Systems Failures & Anomalies Attributed to EMI” NASA Reference Publication 1374 issued in 1995.
You’d think we would have learned our lesson by now…… Regardless, it’s still all about the mighty dollar with no regard to human life. (unfortunately). Check out section 2.3.3 – 6 deaths due to medical device EMI problems. As for the New Jersey incident. It could have been prevented. It was just too costly…..until now. http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/29/us/new-jersey-hoboken-train-safety/index.html Regan Arndt From: dward [mailto:dw...@pctestlab.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 4:15 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. As to John’s comment about the train wreck in the US, try looking at the so called safety record of train travel in the EU. Wrecksin Spin killed 4 injured 49, recent wrecks in Germany killed 30 injured many more. Spain, France, UK, Germany, Italy, Netherlands on and on it goes. So, John’s analogy of train wrecks and so called safety regulations simply does not hold water. On Sep 29, 2016, at 3:19 PM, Ghery S. Pettit <n6...@comcast.net<mailto:n6...@comcast.net>> wrote: Immunity testing is required in the EU, South Korea and China. Nowhere else in the world is it required for commercial products. I’d say that the US is in the “real world”. Ghery S. Pettit From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 3:01 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org> Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. Without getting into the specifics of this particular argument, the idea that the “rest of the world” has dome something doesn’t necessarily imply that North America is “behind.” In the same sense that if a train has derailed and the locomotive is headed over a cliff, we don’t say the caboose is behind and needs to catch up. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 ________________________________ From: john Allen <john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk<mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk>> Reply-To: john Allen <john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk<mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk>> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 22:44:48 +0100 To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>> Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. Dennis I really do wonder what World you live in – but then, TBH, based on your previous comments of a similar nature, I did not expect anything else! OK, Government “interference” is unwelcome in many cases but Brian O’Connell’s post is a poignant “real world” comment on what suppliers are facing, and what the Government should face up to and address – for the greater good of everyone in YOUR country. Without getting trying to “personal”, “get real”! - a lot of the rest of the “real world” has already adopted appropriate requirements to try to prevent undue interference problems and so N. America is behind on this issue. John E Allen. W. London, UK From: dward [mailto:dw...@pctestlab.com] Sent: 29 September 2016 22:28 To: 'john Allen'; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. The federal government already interferes with US citizens far too much as it is – we do not need, nor do most of us want more federal intrusion. The feds are there to keep the wolves at bay and keep out of our lives. Besides, the open market in the US seems to take care of itself in the interference area. Does not take long for the consumer to know what is trash and what works. The only regulations dealing with the spectrum that is needed is the regulation to help stop interference to licensed services. That was the intent of the FCC to start and there is no reason to change it. Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. From: john Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 2:11 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. Dennis And why not – seriously? As was said many years ago – and often repeated! - “what’s right for the goose is right for the gander”. In this case (and many others) In simple terms, that means that implies that electronic devices need to be appropriately resilient to the generally “predictable” levels of external interference in the environments for which they are designed to operate – one of the basic essential requirements of the EMC Directive! Otherwise you might need to specify that YOUR products need to have MIL-STD-461 levels (highest!) of immunity to try to ensure they will work “anywhere” they are likely to be used! John E Allen W. London, UK From: dward [mailto:dw...@pctestlab.com] Sent: 29 September 2016 21:53 To: 'john Allen'; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. Not a chance Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. From: john Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 1:27 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. Almost sounds like a call for N. America to encompass our equivalent immunity requirements (often denigrated - even with Europe, but they generally do seem to work!) ☺ John E Allen W. London, UK -----Original Message----- From: Ghery S. Pettit [mailto:n6...@comcast.net] Sent: 29 September 2016 21:14 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. Preventing harmful interference in all cases is a mighty tough call. How low do you need to limit emissions? How high a signal must the product be immune to? The limits in Part 15 provide a reasonable level of protection, assuming the potential victim is far enough away. Co-located devices may need more suppression. Ghery S. Pettit, NCE -----Original Message----- From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:k...@earthlink.net <mailto:k...@earthlink.net><mailto:k...@earthlink.net> ] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 12:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG><mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] [RFI] Part 15 isn't enough.. On 9/29/2016 2:07 PM, Ken Javor wrote: > I missed out on the prologue and am curious as why Part 15 limits > aren't low enough. Not low enough for what? Actually preventing harmful interference. Requiring a warranty in the purchase contract would put manufacturers on notice that they're actually expected to do that -- and eat the cost of fixing things if they don't. § 15.5 General conditions of operation. (b) Operation of an intentional, unintentional, or incidental radiator is subject to the conditions that no harmful interference is caused and that interference must be accepted that may be caused by the operation of an authorized radio station, by another intentional or unintentional radiator, by industrial, scientific and medical (ISM) equipment, or by an incidental radiator. § 15.15 General technical requirements. (c) Parties responsible for equipment compliance should note that the limits specified in this part will not prevent harmful interference under all circumstances. Since the operators of part 15 devices are required to cease operation should harmful interference occur to authorized users of the radio frequency spectrum, the parties responsible for equipment compliance are encouraged to employ the minimum field strength necessary for communications, to provide greater attenuation of unwanted emissions than required by these regulations, and to advise the user as to how to resolve harmful interference problems (for example, see §15.105(b)). [and (maybe -- good luck)] § 15.17 Susceptibility to interference. (a) Parties responsible for equipment compliance are advised to consider the proximity and the high power of non-Government licensed radio stations, such as broadcast, amateur, land mobile,and non-geostationary mobile satellite feeder link earth stations, and of U.S. Government radio stations, which could include high-powered radar systems, when choosing operating frequencies during the design of their equipment so as to reduce the susceptibility for receiving harmful interference. ... Cortland - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org><mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html><http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ <http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/><http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <http://www.ieee-pses.org/><http://www.ieee-pses.org/> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html><http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html><http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org><mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org><mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org><mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com><mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org><mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html><http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ <http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/><http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <http://www.ieee-pses.org/><http://www.ieee-pses.org/> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html><http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html><http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org><mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org><mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org><mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com><mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html><http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html><http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
