Jamison
The shopping mall example could be a "difficult" situation, but for me that means that there will be quite a lot of Class A ITE such as servers and the like (and even a lot of that is now likely to be Class B because that is what many large end-use customers now specify and expect) in the server rooms, but probably also a much larger amount of Class B equipment like counter terminals, PCs (etc.), vending machines, tv's and other consumer electronics on displays, games arcades (etc.) in the office, shop and public areas - and then there will also generally be large numbers of essentially Class B equipments (phones, tablets and the like) being carried and used by the shopping public, and it would not be "good publicity" for the mall if the customers kept complaining that their equipment won't work when they in the mall or just outside it. Therefore, I would advise that the "heavy stuff" should be Class B for emissions and Class A for immunity. OTOH, if the "heavy stuff" is located a well-defined long distance away from the areas where the more sensitive stuff is likely to be then you might be able to justify Class A for both. That might work for bespoke installations where the equipment supplier can be fairly sure of the exact end-use environment and equipment locations, but almost certainly not for equipment for general sale where the equipment supplier has no real idea of what the end-customers' specifying and installing companies will do with it. John E Allen W. London, UK From: Kortas, Jamison [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 18 October 2016 16:53 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes Thank you - In your example of lifts or a/c it would need to comply with the more restrictive criteria (residential for emissions and industrial for immunity) even though the location may itself not be powered by low-voltage supply. The devices I am working with would not be considered fixed installations, as an elevator would be, so it isn't apples to apples, but disregarding that difference, any idea? Also, what about a large shopping mall? Or are there different types of environments within the shopping mall: i.e., mechanical room with boilers, HVAC, etc. and stores, walkways, etc.? Thanks, -Jamison From: John Allen [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:31 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes You often get heavy electrical machinery in residential, light commercial and hospital (etc.) (especially multi-story) premises - think local power transformers, air-conditioning systems, lifts/elevators, water/sewage pumping equipment, etc - and that can (and has certainly been seen to) affect domestic, IT and medical electronic equipment in those premises. It's the end-use environment that is (or should be) the determining factor in deciding with which category of requirements the EUT must comply. John E Allen W.London, UK From: John Woodgate [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 18 October 2016 16:10 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes No, because light industry premises are often very close to residential premises, get power from the low-voltage supply and broadcast receivers can be much closer than 30 m (the assumption for emission limit purposes is 10 m, but of course they could be even closer). With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.jmwa.demon.co.uk_&d =DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8Nx mY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=l525G496siNA_QwQ5lxfDPu6v xscfAjpp_PeJN5-qcg&e=> J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: Schmidt, Mark [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 3:57 PM To: John Woodgate <[email protected]>; [email protected] Subject: RE: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes Hi John, Would this be applicable for Light Industrial equipment as well? Thank you. From: John Woodgate [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes For Europe, 'industry' means heavy industry - large machines, high-power electrical installation, not powered from the public low-voltage supply. No broadcast radio or TV receivers likely to be within 30 metres. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.jmwa.demon.co.uk_&d =DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9o JL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=GjhS KIL3JsS7U0_q6lCXxHNYbr7GFcQHvQHPwZ7r0vM&e=> J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: Kortas, Jamison [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 1:45 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes Good Morning, What do you use for criteria when reviewing the intended environment in which a device will be placed to determine if it is industrial or non-industrial? I have seen and read varying opinions on what criteria to use. It ranges from a transformer isolated factory to the nature of the other products in the immediate vicinity (a mechanical room in a grocery store = industrial due to the equipment in its immediate environment). I am familiar with some of the definitions in places, but am not so sure that those are what are typically followed in practice. I appreciate any thoughts. Thank you. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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