I'll add a little more to my post.

Our Compliance Department works with many different "Design Teams", so how
involved we get during the development of any project depends a lot on the
Team Members. Those who have been burned in the past know to get us
involved early and often.  Those projects usually go very smoothly.  But
some of our less experienced engineers/project leaders try to shy away from
our involvement until it is too late.  Those projects can be a disaster;
usually causing redesign and unwanted delays. It is learning the hard way.
We try to be as proactive as possible, but some projects are so
confidential that they do not get us involved until it is too late. Then we
have to rain on their parade if you know what I mean.  Fortunately, this
doesn't happen very often.

It used to be more common.  My old boss used to call me "The Seagull"
because when I did get involved in a new project, I tented to "Swoop in,
crap all over everything, then fly away".  That's the job.

The Other Brian

On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 2:57 PM Douglas E Powell <doug...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Brian, I appreciate it.
>
> It was a team effort, and I provided regulatory guidance.  The team was
> very receptive to my recommendations, and it shows. BTW - I forgot to
> mention, it went from an prototype to certification in 4 months time.  In a
> few of my past lives this would have taken six months to two years.
>
> -Doug
>
>
> Douglas E Powell
> Laporte, Colorado USA
> doug...@gmail.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 11:28 AM Brian Kunde <bkundew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Doug,
>>
>> This is a huge accomplishment and you and your entire design team should
>> be very proud. A celebration of some kind would be expected.  For companies
>> like ours who have been making the same type of products for many years, we
>> usually pass safety inspections in the first pass because we know what we
>> are doing and have lots of experience, and have taken our lumps over many
>> years.  But for a start-up or any company making a new type of product, to
>> pass out of the gate is fantastic and almost unheard of.  Good Job!!! all
>> around.
>>
>> The Other Brian
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 1:14 AM Douglas E Powell <doug...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The reason I asked this question is because a company I have been
>>> consulting with for the last 4 months, has this week successfully had their
>>> 80 kWh energy storage system reviewed and tested for a UL 9540 listing.
>>> This a startup company and they achieved first pass certification of their
>>> product. A limited production certificate was issued and now they are at
>>> the point where they will want to ramp up for factory certification. I was
>>> duly impressed and felt priveledged to be a part of the team. I also felt
>>> this was a very rare achievement and wanted to know the experience of
>>> others in this regard.
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 25, 2021, 8:12 PM Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Doug,
>>>>
>>>> Very interesting question and I would like to know it as well.  Suggest
>>>> to go to the testing lab for the answer.  They should have the statistics
>>>> in their business.
>>>>
>>>> Would you mind sharing why you want to know it, what for?  Although I
>>>> do not have the figures I am aware of the answers why the product cannot
>>>> pass the test in the first attempt.  Below is my experience in dealing with
>>>> Asian suppliers in the past many years.
>>>>
>>>>    - No safety engineer to go thru the design against the applicable
>>>>    standards before submitted for testing.
>>>>    - No proper facilities to conduct the pre-tests.
>>>>    - The employer does not recognise the importance of this position
>>>>    and results in no safety engineer in the manufacturer.  The design 
>>>> engineer
>>>>    is also not brave enough to tell the employer that they do not have
>>>>    knowledge, experience and test facilities in doing the relevant test 
>>>> work
>>>>    so the employer believes he/she looks after this as well.
>>>>    - The design engineer does not have relevant knowledge and training
>>>>    for the test work.  There is little education system in current
>>>>    universities/vocational institutes to help the society.  Most test
>>>>    engineers in public test labs are trained by the employers, not from the
>>>>    current educational system.  Some small associations (TIC - Testing,
>>>>    Inspection & Certification) from the industry are setting up routes to 
>>>> be
>>>>    certified testing professionals in the current educational system with 
>>>> the
>>>>    help from the Government Industry Department.  Just some improvement but
>>>>    not sufficient IMO!
>>>>
>>>> Based on the above facts, it leads to other potential issues in the
>>>> finished products.  Even if the product has passed the conformity test, the
>>>> manufacturer may not know why their design meets the requirements.  How can
>>>> they maintain the compliance in production?  If the manufacturer does not
>>>> have this knowledge, how can they plan their assurance protocol for mass
>>>> production in order to validate the finished products in compliance with
>>>> the original design limits before leaving the factory?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards, ☺
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 at 01:56, Douglas E Powell <doug...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Out of curiosity,
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to know (especially from those who have been in the
>>>>> business for a while) what is your "first pass success rate" for safety
>>>>> certifications on new product introductions? That is, to achieve a product
>>>>> safety certification from an accredited laboratory with no action items
>>>>> required coming out of the preliminary design review.  It's helpful if you
>>>>> can indicate how complex the projects are.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my 26 years as a compliance engineer, I've observed possibly three
>>>>> in total for products with a reasonably high complexity.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks! Doug
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Douglas E Powell
>>>>> doug...@gmail.com
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
>>>>> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail
>>>>> to &LT;emc-p...@ieee.org&GT;
>>>>>
>>>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
>>>>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities
>>>>> site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for
>>>>> graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
>>>>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
>>>>> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>
>>>>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>>>>>
>>>>> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>>>>> Scott Douglas &LT;sdoug...@ieee.org&GT;
>>>>> Mike Cantwell &LT;mcantw...@ieee.org&GT;
>>>>>
>>>>> For policy questions, send mail to:
>>>>> Jim Bacher &LT;j.bac...@ieee.org&GT;
>>>>> David Heald &LT;dhe...@gmail.com&GT;
>>>>>
>>>> -
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
>>> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail
>>> to &LT;emc-p...@ieee.org&GT;
>>>
>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
>>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>>>
>>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site
>>> at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
>>> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>>>
>>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
>>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
>>> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>
>>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>>>
>>> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>>> Scott Douglas &LT;sdoug...@ieee.org&GT;
>>> Mike Cantwell &LT;mcantw...@ieee.org&GT;
>>>
>>> For policy questions, send mail to:
>>> Jim Bacher &LT;j.bac...@ieee.org&GT;
>>> David Heald &LT;dhe...@gmail.com&GT;
>>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Douglas E Powell
>
> doug...@gmail.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
>

-
----------------------------------------------------------------
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>
Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  <j.bac...@ieee.org>
David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>

Reply via email to