Very good information, all. So how do I know if my product is "*effectively protected from voltage surges on the incoming supply circuit"??* Can I test my product to the Surge Immunity Test IEC 61000-4-5 at some voltage??? 2kV?, 3kV? 4kV? higher? to make that determination?
How is a Field Inspector going to determine if a product is efficiently protected or not? The manufacturers of Surge Protection Devices are saying their "listed" devices are now "Required", and there's no way around it. The hair on the back of my head sticks up when I hear such things. Manufacturers of Industrial Machines will not know if their customer already has Surge Protection, so why should the both parties be burdened with the cost of double protection. Can the machine manufacturer specify that the facility must provide the SPD? Instead of just requiring a SPD, why not require the Machine Manufacturer to insure their products pass a Surge Immunity Test of some kind? Isn't Surge Immunity already a requirement in the electrical safety standards that Machines have to meet anyway? You got me thinking, now. Thanks again. Brian On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 5:26 PM Don Gies < 00000e5e843b011c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote: > Group, > > > > The requirement for surge protection in NFPA 70 (2023): 670.6 goes back to > NFPA 79, “Electrical Standard for Industrial Machinery.” > > > > > > The scope NEC 70 (2023): 670 refers to NFPA 79, as follows: > > > > *Article 670 Industrial Machinery* > > 670.1 Scope. > > This article covers the nameplate data for, overvoltage protection for, > and the size and overcurrent protection of supply conductors to industrial > machinery. > > Informational Note No. 1: > See NFPA 79, *Electrical Standard for Industrial Machinery*, for further > information. > > Informational Note No. 2: > See 110.26 > <https://link.nfpa.org/publications/70/2023/chapters/1/articles/110#ID000700000283> > for information on the workspace requirements for equipment containing > supply conductor terminals. > > Informational Note No. 3: > See NFPA 79, *Electrical Standard for Industrial Machinery*, for > information on the workspace requirements for machine power and control > equipment. > > 670.6 reads as follows (2023 NEC): > > 670.6 Overvoltage Protection. > Industrial machinery with safety circuits shall have overvoltage > protection. > > > > Under NFPA 79: 7.8.1, the requirement for surge protection is as follows: > > > > 7.8.1* > <https://link.nfpa.org/publications/79/2021/annexes/A/groups/7#ID000790001728> > Surge-Protective > Devices (SPDs). > > Industrial machinery with safety circuits not effectively protected from > the effects of overvoltages due to lightning or switching surges shall have > surge protection installed. > > Exception: > SPDs shall not be required where the risks associated with the effects of > overvoltages are mitigated such that the safety performance determined by a > risk assessment is met. > > Enhanced Content > > The term *surge-protective devices (SPDs*) has replaced the previously > used terms * overvoltage protection device, lightning overvoltage > suppression*, and *surge switching overvoltage suppression* in 7.8.1, > 7.8.2 > <https://link.nfpa.org/publications/79/2021/chapters/7#ID000790000458>, > and 7.8.3 > <https://link.nfpa.org/publications/79/2021/chapters/7#ID000790001613>. > See the definition of *surge-protective device (SPD)* in 3.3.104 > <https://link.nfpa.org/publications/79/2021/chapters/3#ID000790001610>. > The 2018 edition revised the existing requirement in 7.8.1 to require an > appropriate SPD for protection of industrial machinery with safety > interlock circuits to correlate with Section 670.6 of NFPA 70 > <https://link.nfpa.org/publications/70/2020>. > > > > > > Best regards, > > *Don Gies* > > > > > > > > Internal > > *From:* Richard Nute <ri...@ieee.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 1, 2022 4:03 PM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC > > > > [External email: Use caution with links and attachments] > ------------------------------ > > > > > > The NEC 670.6 quote triggers some questions: > > > > I wonder why industrial machinery with a safety interlock is required to > have surge protection as opposed to machinery that does not have an > interlock? > > > > Is an “on-off” or “run-stop” control considered a “safety interlock”? > > > > Is the “surge” a higher-than-normal power-line voltage or is it an impulse > from switching or lightning? > > > > Does “effectively protected” mean passing the dielectric (hi-pot) test? > > > > Richard Nute > > Bend, Oregon, USA > > (Several inches accumulation of snow this morning, but above freezing.) > > > > > > *From:* Doug Powell <doug...@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 1, 2022 11:28 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC > > > > From the 2020 Edition, emphasis is mine. > > > > "670.6 Surge Protection. Industrial machinery with safety interlock > control devices *not effectively protected from voltage surges on the > incoming supply circuit* shall have surge protection installed." > > > > It does not say where this protection needs to be applied, so I assume it > can be within the machine or somewhere in machine supply. Also, does the > product you are inquiring about fall under the definition of *Industrial > Machinery*, NFPA 79? > > > > -Doug > > > > Douglas E Powell > > Laporte, Colorado USA > > doug...@gmail.com > > LinkedIn > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fcoloradocomplianceguy%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cdonald.gies%40se.com%7C2941b6fae766483a408508dabc4414aa%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C638029297833795988%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=aTsjPeQTYkClbU2fXAmeM4UidLwnyb9v3wEYHCSB7WI%3D&reserved=0> > > > > (UTC -06:00) Mountain Time (US-MDT) > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 11:55 AM Brian Kunde <bkundew...@gmail.com> wrote: > > It just came to my attention that section 670.6 of the US National > Electric Code 2017 requires a listed Surge Protection Device (SPD) to be on > any Industrial Machine that has an Interlock, or I assume any kind of > safety function. Is this true? The only information I can find on the > internet is from the companies that make and sell the SPDs which can often > be very one sided. Is there more to this story that I am missing? > > > > Does the Surge Protection have to be listed? Are there specifications for > the SPD? Is there a Surge Immunity Test that be used to validate and > verify whether an additional SPD is required or not? > > > > Thanks, > > The Other Brian > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. 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