in such case, maximizing mttvp=l*mtbf still applies. the matter is that mtbf is unexpectedly small, so reduced labor cost becomes more critical because of constant machine repair requirements (=lots of labor involved). given an unlimited supply of labor at vanishingly small cost, mtbf could approach zero without consequence. maybe not realistic, but theoretically a way to avoid litigation.
--- On Mon, 3/26/12, Dave <e...@dc9.tzo.com> wrote: > From: Dave <e...@dc9.tzo.com> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Storebro 260, firstEcounter etc... > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> > Date: Monday, March 26, 2012, 8:43 AM > In this case it is simpler than > that. > > The machine runs and the company takes on a contract to > supply parts. > The machine breaks down and the parts are not supplied per > the contract. > Best case: The customer decides to take their business > elsewhere and > future business is lost. > Worst case: The customer sues the company since the > contract was not > met. Any possible profit is erased > and it turns into a legal liability situation. > > Dave > > On 3/26/2012 5:34 AM, charles green wrote: > > mtbf has a limited scope. instead, the > consideration should be of mttvp - mean time to vanishing > profit. the trend seems to be generally in the > direction of maximizing the product mttvp=l*mtbf by reducing > the cost of l=labor by any means. this has a mixed > effct in markets where stockholders are also laborers, but > the results are fantastic in areas where investment is > segregated from toil. > > > > > > --- On Sun, 3/25/12, Dave<e...@dc9.tzo.com> > wrote: > > > > > >> From: Dave<e...@dc9.tzo.com> > >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Storebro 260, > firstEcounter etc... > >> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >> Date: Sunday, March 25, 2012, 10:54 PM > >> > >>>> Get acquainted with the > >>>> > >> system is a good thing to do if it's > >> possible, right? > >> > >> Well.. if you can get it to run and do what > you want > >> to do with the > >> existing controls, that is fine. But if I > were you I > >> would use that > >> opportunity to understand how the turret works, > electrically > >> and > >> mechanically, how the drives function, how the > machine is > >> shifted - if > >> it has various ranges, etc and then line up some > parts and > >> time to > >> retrofit that machine. Assuming you keep the > drives, I > >> would start > >> looking for spares to keep on the shelf. > >> > >> The problem is that when that machine goes down > hard, it > >> will be very > >> difficult and expensive to get it to run again, > unless you > >> have a cache > >> of spare boards. So if you take an > order to run > >> on that machine for a > >> 1000 parts and you are 200 parts into that order > and the > >> machine dies, > >> you may be in a very bad spot. > >> > >> Dave > >> > >> > >> On 3/25/2012 3:50 PM, Roger Holmquist wrote: > >> > >>> Thanks Dave for your thoughts. > >>> > >>> The MTBF-factor is of course a hard caught > animal, I > >>> > >> guess I have at > >> > >>> least two objectives with a project like this: > >>> 1) Try to make it run by repairing it or work > around > >>> > >> it's faults. > >> > >>> 2) Treat it as an self educational exercise > aiming at > >>> > >> more modern > >> > >>> machines and controls. > >>> > >>> This could done I guess, on another machine > machine but > >>> > >> if we decide > >> > >>> to refurbish it with a new control it's good to > dig > >>> > >> inte a working > >> > >>> system because somewhere you have to cut > the > >>> > >> wires between the > >> > >>> control and the machine. > >>> Get acquainted with the system is a good thing > to do if > >>> > >> it's > >> > >>> possible, right? > >>> I can observe the behaviour of the switches in > the > >>> > >> diagnosispage and > >> > >>> I think this is a great way to find out how it > works, > >>> > >> by observing > >> > >>> it's various parameters in action. > >>> You may also monitor the signals on the > physical wiring > >>> > >> when the > >> > >>> system is running making use of logic > analyers, > >>> > >> oscilloscopes and > >> > >>> multimeters. > >>> Yes, I have a background in repairing > electronics, > >>> > >> analogue and > >> > >>> digital, the analytical way. > >>> Nonetheless, it still may turn out to be too > cumbersome > >>> > >> so doing this > >> > >>> on a more modern system should probably be a > better > >>> > >> investment. > >> > >>> I'll talk to Johnny about this. > >>> > >>> Greetings / Roger > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> 25 mar 2012 kl. 21:13 skrev emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> I looked at the Siemen website and they > only go > >>>> > >> back to the Sinumerik > >> > >>>> 8T. I've deal with some of the > hardware that > >>>> > >> the 8T used and it was > >> > >>>> very difficult to make that > >>>> hardware reliable. Unless you can get > that > >>>> > >> control to operate > >> > >>>> properly > >>>> and find documentation (unlikely) I'd > replace it. > >>>> I've spent days working on old controllers > like > >>>> > >> that and sometimes > >> > >>>> they > >>>> end up working ok for a while, but when you > are > >>>> > >> done, the best you > >> > >>>> have > >>>> is a very old control that is living on > the > >>>> > >> edge. If it goes down, it > >> > >>>> tends to stay down and simply become a time > eater. > >>>> > >>>> Dave > >>>> > >>>> > >>> ----------- > >>> abCNC > >>> ----------- > >>> Roger Holmquist > >>> Bockarp villa Tallebo > >>> 59592 Mjölby > >>> +46-706-250123 > >>> +46-768-788477 > >>> +46-142-20542 > >>> ro...@abcnc.se > >>> http://abcnc.se > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >>> This SF email is sponsosred by: > >>> Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> Emc-users mailing list > >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> This SF email is sponsosred by: > >> Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Emc-users mailing list > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > >> > >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This SF email is sponsosred by: > > Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure > > _______________________________________________ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF email is sponsosred by: > Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure > _______________________________________________ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
