John,
Thanks for the long writeup. I'll read it again a few times before I say anything in detail. But to answer some questions At this point I want to look at a wide survey and understand what's been done. What worked and what did not. The target audience for everything I make is myself. If there are others like me then all the better someone else can use it too. My use case is for simple one-off machining on a mill or lathe that is converted to CNC and maybe does not even have hand cranks on it anymore (not decided on the crank issue yet.) For anything more complex the boring a hole, I'm using Autodesk Fusion 360. It works well for modeling "organic" shapes that also have to fit inside a machine. Fusion usable built-in CAM for printing, lathe and 4-axis mill. I do believe is hammering down requirements, prototypes and so on. Kind of a slow approach to engineering. But always seat with "What would I want if I had Star Wars level technology and a big budget. Cast a wide net and then sit on all those ideas for a while. I'm at the "wide net" stage of this project. On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 5:34 PM, John Dammeyer <[email protected]> wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: November-19-17 3:30 PM > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC); Machinekit > > Subject: [Emc-users] Looking for examples of conversational machine > interface > > > > As the title says. I'm collecting ideas and the best place to start is > > with good examples of what is currently available today. > > > > A conversational interface to a milling machine is one that does not > expose > > G-Code or CAD/CAM to the user. The user "tells" the machine what he > wants, > > usually by selecting from a short menu. The machine provides a preview > of > > what he asked for. Possibly the user sees a mistake and makes a > correction > > and then finally says "Do it." > > > > There are some serious limits to what can be done with this kind of > > interface. But also the simple kinds of operations that can be done are > > common and useful. For example surface milling a large flat area, > boring > > a hole of a given diameter and depth or making a pocket. > > > > What I'm looking for is examples of this kind of user interface and > > opinions, good or bad. Anyone have links to products and experience > (good > > or bad) using them. > > > > My goals to make something VERY SIMPLE to do one-off machine tasks. This > > kind of software is NOT real-time so it could run on any hardware, even a > > cell phone. > > > > Please don't say you would never us this because you write g-code. No, > you > > do that only because it is the least bad option. > > > > Before you try and design anything perhaps define your target market? Who > is willing to pay a few thousand dollars for a milling machine and tooling > to then clamp a piece of metal into a vice to have it automatically mill a > few holes. For that matter, who is willing to write the software, probably > for free, that would do such a simple operations? > > This world does indeed now exist with 3D printing. All you have to know is > how to find the stl files on the web and run it through a converter to then > 3D print a toy or whatever. No design experience needed. Except when you > want to make something custom. And suddenly knowledge of CAD is a > requirement. For those who don't take the time to learn at least a minimal > amount of CAD the machine ends up collecting dust after the novelty wears > off. > > The same thing now exists to a certain extent in the micro-controller > marketplace too. Called an Arduino, a user no longer has to spend hours > working through the data sheets to figure out how to create a PWM signal on > a specific pin. CAD software and PCB layout isn't needed. Most of the > work > is already done. The language is simplified and just call a library > function. There are hundreds of modules to build a plug and play kind of > product. Until you need something not addressed with a COTS solution. > Then > suddenly "computer engineering" as it's called now is a requirement. > > However, the desire to replace "expertise" with click and point rather than > develop design capabilities may not be that successful when it comes to a > milling machine, CNC router or a lathe. Simply because these tools can be > dangerous. So a minimum amount of education investment is a requirement. > > The MACH3 developers introduced a number of elements called wizards. They > already do much of what you want. Bolt circles are easy. Fill in the > blanks on the screen. It creates the G-Code. Press run. Except it is > never that simple. You have to insert the correct tool. You have to set > the zero for the tool bit. The work has to be well clamped and the clamps > can't be in the way of the tool motion. Not as easy as you might think and > a broken tool off a 20,000 RPM can be lethal. > > So I'd suggest you first write a clear description of who would use > something like this. What their education level is? How often would they > use this? We tend to forget what we don't practice. Machining, CAD/CAM, > PCB design and even writing software requires practice. I don't think > there is a shortcut to building things without regular practice. > > For the most part I don't write G-Code. I may edit a few lines here and > there to solve potential problems. What I do is use AlibreCAD to create a > parametric drawing of the part. Then I use the same AlibreCAD to turn that > into a couple of sheets of 2D drawings with dimensions so I can see what I > want to build. > > Next I use the AlibreCAM (MecSoft) add in to specify the type of machine, > the material and bounding area where the end product sits within the raw > material. Finally tools, feeds and speeds etc. I can then simulate the > entire operation and look for tool path issues. > Finally the end result posted is a G-Code file which is put onto a USB > dongle and then inserted into the PC running the machine controller > software. > > Since I've predefined where my zero is. The machine has limit switches so > it knows where the zeros are. I set up the raw material. Set up the tool > bit etc. and press start. If all I want are 18 holes for LED light pipes > in > a small piece of plastic (I make about 20 at a time) I end up running the > program 20 times. Replacing the milled part with a new blank each time. > The jig for it gets put away until the next time when I'm done. > > So in other words, what you want already exists in several different ways. > What doesn't exist is this solution at a zero dollar cost. And if I don't > use the CAD/CAM software for 6 months I have to practice a bit again before > I can use the equipment safely. > > John > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Emc-users mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
