yes, if I understood you correctly Maria, you say that I am not trying to work 
with grief over ones own complicity or remorse. I am more invested in the 
notion and symbolic power as well as real experience of communal grief -- this 
is what oppressive systems fear most -- the symbolic "power" of the connecting 
tissue of our emotions but not those on individual level alone
On Oct 4, 2012, at 6:41 PM, Maria Damon wrote:

> Yes, when I mentioned Lamentations, I meant the Hebrew Bible. Old. Grieving 
> for ones city, ones polis, ones people. Also, it seems that this is *not* 
> where you were going, Monika, a sense of grief over ones own possible 
> complicity, real or imagined... remorse.
> 
> On 10/4/12 5:55 PM, Monika Weiss wrote:
>> While aware of some of the lamentations explored by artists such as Martha 
>> Graham (who is not my favorite although I have a great respect for her) -- 
>> what I am working towards is a connection with the older, before now, before 
>> any specific time, lamentation. My dancer actually took me to Wender's film 
>> about Pina Baush last Spring, and while aware of her name I never really 
>> knew of this work until quite recently (maybe even Alan mentioned her to me 
>> a long time ago) but it took a person whose body literally inhabited my work 
>> 'Sustenazo (Lament II)' to "discover" this work and a feeling of connection.
>> 
>> Monika
>> 
>> On Oct 4, 2012, at 4:05 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>>> which "Lamentations" are you refering to? (not Martha Graham's 
>>>> Lamentation?) 
>>> 
>>> Book of Lamentations in English
>>> 
>>> All Sandy and I are/were on about, I think, is the silence and the obdurate 
>>> that occurs in relaton to severe pain; I'm thinking for example of my 
>>> mother shortly before her death, when she had been anesthetized to 
>>> alleviate her suffering in the hospice. The silence is also the silence at 
>>> the heart of the signifier; the signifier is both suture and broken suture, 
>>> covering and dis/covering pain, naming it for those who are suffering, who 
>>> can no longer hear the name, who are no longer with us, coffin or not - 
>>> when my father died, there were issues at the cemetary about the burial of 
>>> ashes.
>>> 
>>> - Alan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Alan schreibt:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> public lament and gardening
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, 4 Oct 2012, Maria Damon wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Is there then (I'm sort of assuming the answer is yes, but asking anyway 
>>>>> in
>>>>> order to make it part of the fabric of the conversation) a way in which
>>>>> lamentation is also critique as well as community self-constitution, as in
>>>>> Lamentations?
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Maria, I wonder what sort of critique would be possible? Lamentations
>>>> seems to bridge the political and the obdurate. When pain becomes
>>>> overwhelming, silence is at the core and the signifier dissolves; I think
>>>> this is also the core of anguish. One is left speechless. On the other
>>>> hand, how much clarity is necessary for political or 'rational' thought?
>>>> In an odd way this also brings up mathematical thinking - which, from an
>>>> outsider point-of-view, seems based on the manipulation of symbols, but
>>>> from within is much more of clouded movements with indeterminate focus
>>>> (see Jacques Hadamard). Thinking itself, in other words, may well have
>>>> less content than its representations, and certainly its representations
>>>> in virtual worlds, where everything, one way or another, is determinate
>>>> and rationalized on a pixel-by-pixel level.
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> empyre forum
>>>> empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
>>>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> empyre forum
>>> empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
>>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>> 
>> M o n i k a   W e i s s   S t u d i o
>> 456 Broome Street, 4
>> New York, NY 10013
>> Phone: 212-226-6736
>> Mobile: 646-660-2809
>> www.monika-weiss.com
>> gnie...@monika-weiss.com 
>> 
>> M o n i k a   W e i s s
>> Assistant Professor
>> Graduate School of Art & Hybrid Media
>> Sam Fox School of Design & Visual Arts  
>> Washington University in St. Louis 
>> Campus Box 1031 
>> One Brookings Drive 
>> St. Louis, MO 63130 
>> mwe...@samfox.wustl.edu
>> http://samfoxschool.wustl.edu/portfolios/faculty/monika_weiss
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> empyre forum
>> empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> 
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> http://www.subtle.net/empyre

M o n i k a   W e i s s   S t u d i o
456 Broome Street, 4
New York, NY 10013
Phone: 212-226-6736
Mobile: 646-660-2809
www.monika-weiss.com
gnie...@monika-weiss.com 

M o n i k a   W e i s s
Assistant Professor
Graduate School of Art & Hybrid Media
Sam Fox School of Design & Visual Arts  
Washington University in St. Louis 
Campus Box 1031 
One Brookings Drive 
St. Louis, MO 63130 
mwe...@samfox.wustl.edu
http://samfoxschool.wustl.edu/portfolios/faculty/monika_weiss






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