On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 6:17 AM Prashanth Nethi <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Thanks for the information Alon! That is exactly the information I wanted.
> Your theory of deferred memory usage pattern might be the reason for
> browsers reporting used memory differently.
>
> It is unfortunate that we will not be able to use PThreads in our main
> Wasm because of this limitation, as we have lot of JS running alongside
> Wasm. Any rough timeline on when we can expect ALLOW_MEMORY_GROWTH to work
> with PTHREADS?
>

It already works, but memory access from JS is somewhat slower. In most
cases you won't notice that, though - unless you've already tested and see
overhead? If so that could be useful to mention to the standards bodies
that are considering a spec change that could improve this, it could
increase the priority.

- Alon


> Also about checking the memory usage in devtools, I am using Chrome's task
> manager as well as Activity Monitor (both on Mac) to check the webpage's
> memory footprint. At both the places, the 2GB reserved memory is not
> getting reflected. Maybe I am missing on checking other relevant fields.
> But that should be fine, as I got the required information from you.
>
> Appreciate the help Alon!
>
> Thanks,
> Prashanth Nethi
>
> On Friday, August 28, 2020 at 12:23:24 AM UTC+5:30 [email protected]
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 10:28 AM Prashanth Nethi <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My bad Alon! I will try to elaborate the scenario.I am trying to
>>> understand the implications of switching off ALLOW_MEMORY_GROWTH in our
>>> project. (which would be the case if we want  PTHREADS enabled).
>>>
>>> The question is around, what if we set INITIAL_VALUE value to max value
>>> (2GB).  Does that mean when WASM is instantiated with INITIAL_VALUE=2048MB,
>>> 2GB is reserved right upfront, even if not required right away? If yes,
>>> does that mean this will reduce the usable JS heap size (by 2GB), right
>>> from the beginning?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, exactly. An initial value of X means X is allocated right from the
>> start. Yes, this reduces available memory for other things, which can have
>> downsides.
>>
>>
>>> When I instantiate WASM (in my test app) with an INITIAL_VALUE=2000MB
>>> and check for the memory that specific webpage is taking, I see that page
>>> does not take 2GB but a lot lesser.
>>>
>>
>> How are you measuring that?
>>
>> It's possible the browser allocates that memory via calloc() or such, and
>> maybe the OS doesn't actually use any physical memory until those pages are
>> touched, though. So maybe only virtual memory is used initially. (But even
>> that can cause problems on 32 bit due to address space limits.)
>>
>> Measuring via browser devtools should report the full 2GB is used
>> immediately.
>>
>>
>>> It is when I start acquiring more memory, the memory usage goes up until
>>> it hits the 2GB limit. Surprisingly this is the same behaviour I see with
>>> ALLOW_MEMORY_GROWTH =1, USE_PTHREADS=0 (i.e. with PThreads disabled). So
>>> trying to understand the dynamics and come up with the recommendation on
>>> whether to enable or not enable PTHREADS in our app. FYI. The app has the
>>> requirement to load on various browsers and devices, with Chrome and
>>> Chromebook being our majority targets.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Prashanth Nethi
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 27, 2020 at 10:07:55 PM UTC+5:30 [email protected]
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 8:47 AM Prashanth Nethi <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Alon! That explains it! Yeah I should have thought a little
>>>>> deeper.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am just posting my follow up question in case you did not get a
>>>>> chance to look at it.
>>>>>
>>>>> One follow up question. May be a dumb one. What could be the potential
>>>>> problems with ALLOW_MEMORY_GROWTH missing in PThreads mode? I see that 
>>>>> when
>>>>> the Wasm is instantiated, the overall memory that the Chrome tab was 
>>>>> taking
>>>>> was similar to the one taken by the WASM built with ALLOW_MEMORY_GROWTH. 
>>>>> Is
>>>>> it that, we will not be able to instantiate WASM on low end devices if
>>>>> built with ALLOW_MEMORY_GROWTH=0?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what you're asking here?
>>>>
>>>> In general, not having memory growth enabled means that memory can't
>>>> grow. So if you need more than the initial value, the program will hit a
>>>> problem. I don't think there's anything special to pthreads in that case.
>>>> (The reverse, having growth *enabled*, does have downsides for pthreads as
>>>> the JS use of memory becomes somewhat slower.)
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Prashanth Nethi
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, August 27, 2020 at 2:37:07 AM UTC+5:30 [email protected]
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My guess is that's because of the behavior of std::vector and how it
>>>>>> resizes. Over those appends it will malloc and free repeatedly and that 
>>>>>> may
>>>>>> cause fragmentation that prevents a final larger size, which must be a
>>>>>> single contiguous region. The second version allocates many smaller ones,
>>>>>> not a single contiguous region.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Alon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 11:24 PM Prashanth Nethi <
>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks Alon! So here is something very weird. I could get the memory
>>>>>>> usage go all the way to 2GB when I changed my testing code. This was my
>>>>>>> original test code. So basically I was just adding elements to 
>>>>>>> std::vector
>>>>>>> infinitely.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> class TestClass{
>>>>>>>  private:
>>>>>>>   int t = 0;
>>>>>>> };
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> struct Data {
>>>>>>>  int t;
>>>>>>>  TestClass obj;
>>>>>>> };
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> typedef std::vector<Data> Vec;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vec someVec;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> using namespace std;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> int main() {
>>>>>>>  printf("hello, world!\n");
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  while(1){
>>>>>>>   Data data;
>>>>>>>   someVec.push_back(data);
>>>>>>>  }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  return 0;
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With this code, the WASM memory was going all the way to 1GB.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But when I changed the code to this, where I am writing some value
>>>>>>> after acquiring memory, then I am able to see the memory usage go all 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> way up to 2 GB. Could this be a bug? I am on emscripten 2.0.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> int main() {
>>>>>>>   printf("hello, world!\n");
>>>>>>>   char *p = nullptr;
>>>>>>>   int byteSize = 50 * 1024 * 1024;
>>>>>>>   while(1){
>>>>>>>         p = new char(byteSize);
>>>>>>>         p[byteSize] = 20;
>>>>>>>   }
>>>>>>>   return 0;
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also It is very encouraging to see that 4GB is considered for
>>>>>>> PThreads as well! Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One follow up question. May be a dumb one. What could be the
>>>>>>> potential problems with ALLOW_MEMORY_GROWTH missing in PThreads mode? I 
>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>> that when the Wasm is instantiated, the overall memory that the Chrome 
>>>>>>> tab
>>>>>>> was taking was similar to the one taken by the WASM built with
>>>>>>> ALLOW_MEMORY_GROWTH. Is it that, we will not be able to instantiate 
>>>>>>> WASM on
>>>>>>> low end devices if built with ALLOW_MEMORY_GROWTH=0?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greatly appreciate your help Alon!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Prashanth Nethi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, August 22, 2020 at 1:50:57 AM UTC+5:30
>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think you can do any number up to 2GB, including 2GB - 64Kb. So
>>>>>>>> the limit isn't 1GB, unless you see that on some specific browser? 
>>>>>>>> Could be
>>>>>>>> a bug.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It should soon be possible to do up to 4GB for the initial memory
>>>>>>>> (without growth), thanks to a spec change,
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/WebAssembly/spec/pull/1174
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 8:10 AM Prashanth Nethi <
>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am currently building WASM with the following flags, to enable
>>>>>>>>> PThreads in Wasm.
>>>>>>>>> -s USING_PTHREADS=1 -s INITIAL_MEMORY=1999MB -s
>>>>>>>>> MAXIMUM_MEMORY=2GB.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This works wonderfully for our use cases! In fact we are able to
>>>>>>>>> get 2x performance in some cases!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When I checked the max memory that the Wasm could use, with
>>>>>>>>> PThreads enabled, it got capped at 1 GB. I am seeing that when the 
>>>>>>>>> WASM is
>>>>>>>>> built with ALLOW_MEMORY_GROWTH, the Wasm can use upto 2GB. I know that
>>>>>>>>> ALLOW_MEMORY_GROWTH with USE_PTHREADS is discouraged so can't look at 
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> as a possible solution.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is there anyway I can get Wasm to use 2GB (or even potentially 4GB
>>>>>>>>> in the future) with PThreads enabled? Is it that I am missing using 
>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>> configuration options?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am really hoping there is a way to increase the WASM cap to 2GB,
>>>>>>>>> as using PThreads, solves our use cases in a big way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Prashanth Nethi
>>>>>>>>>
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