On Tuesday, 11 October 2005, at 16:59:42 (+0900), Carsten Haitzler wrote: > my quote for this mail: > > "can't we just all get along?"
Some of us can. Those of us who are working as a team. Our problem is with those working *against* the team. > ok everyone back off on the harsh language and mails. first. ETK is in > PROTO... > i repeat - PROTO. PROTO PROTO PROTO > > PROTO = PROTOTYPE So what? Sure, it's in proto for now. But then what? > proto is a playground for code - a place to play with ideas IN code > that can be shared and looked at and commented on. And so we're commenting. Yay, the system worked! :-) > secondly - moom isnt such an excited newcomer - he's been around for > a while. has likely contributed to about as much code as you have. If that's true (which I doubt), then he's been doing it in secret behind everyone's backs. And while that may not worry you, it sure worries me. > is this project an ivory tower? or a bazaar? Going behind everyone's back to undermine an existing project sounds a lot more like an ivory tower than a bazaar to me. > i can tell you - we dont have the resources to be an ivory tower. i > sure as hell don't have the time. i barely have the time to deal > with mail (like this one) and somewhere inbetween get some code > done. if we want to "manage" this ivory tower - who is going to > fulltime do that? who? thats going to snarf one DEDICATED* person > for their entire available time - i guarantee it now. and what if > they go away like about 98%** of people who come to contribute for a > week, then vanish do? If you want to stay away from the ivory tower model and encourage the bazaar, then why are you supporting (albeit indirectly) vigilantism and underhanded political posturing? Where would we be if everyone chose to do everything their own way instead of cooperating and working together? We'd have about 15 different versions of everything, and our progress would be severely stunted. > if etk stay a play thing for simon and no one else ever wants to use > it - well that is a vote by the "public" as to if they want it or > not (the public being developers). if people jump on it and use it > everywhere suddenly - then well thats a vote for it. if this spurrs > freindly competition then BOTH EWL AND ETK benefit. you may not > rememebr or know of the days when e competed directly with > windowmaker, version for versions we played tit-for-tat feature > games. you know - we BOTH BENEFITTED. benefits are more than just > plain code - ideas, solutions and just swapping compliments and > encouragement are GREAT MOTIVATORS. You keep going on and on about competition being good and new ideas being good and all that. You're ignoring the key issue here. If Simon had said, "Hey guys, I have some new ideas I'd like to try, a somewhat different approach to an EFL-based widget set. I thought I might toss it into proto/ and see what people think," that would've been different. The reality is that Simon and Hisham have been whining for ages about "design problems" with EWL that even *they* can't identify. They've also been badmouthing and undermining other projects, most vociferously EWL, at every opportunity. Competition is one thing; stabbing fellow team members in the back is quite another. And by defending their behavior, you're validating it. You're basically saying to Nathan and Dan, "I don't value the work you've done enough to defend it. I'm quite happy letting others sneak in the back way and undermine your work by spreading FUD while you're not around." > now if we can all be adult enough to agree to disagree and not turn > this into a schoolyard spat If you're going to point the Immaturity Finger, I suggest you do so in the right direction. If Simon's motives are as pure and innocent as you believe them to be, why all the secrecy? Why the constant EWL-bashing with no real evidence, discussion, or concensus? > if someoen wanted to compet with evas and made a credible > replacement and eventually even made something better - i'd say > "good on you". it woudl either make me go "thank GOD i dont have to > work on evas anymore - time to port" OR, it'd put the fire under my > arse to move evas along and do a lot of thgins i've put off on the > todo list to improve it to compete. i dont believe in > protectionism. i am a big believer of darwinism and competition. if > it werent for that we, as humans, would not exist**** And it wouldn't bother you one bit if that individual or group of people sat around trashing evas to anyone who'd listen in your own channel without pointing out any actual flaws or having any code to back up their arguments? I think Nathan deserves better than that. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can bend over for Blue Cross, and you can bend over for Kaiser. Blue Cross is nice because they give you two ways to bend over." -- anonymous co-worker ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Power Architecture Resource Center: Free content, downloads, discussions, and more. http://solutions.newsforge.com/ibmarch.tmpl _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
