Hi, Moving it to the template certainly makes life so we don't have to remember to add it to every page. It looks from the current status that it should have been on on /docs and /news - so with the new structure I'll pop it on /docs /develop /contrib and /news then - does that meet our requirements?
Thanks, Andy On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 at 00:20 Carsten Haitzler <[email protected]> wrote: > On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 11:01:12 +0000 Andrew Williams <[email protected]> > said: > > > Hi, > > > > I was just looking at our usage of discussions on the website as well. > > Outside of news articles I count 11 pages that have it turned on. > > Should we have it switched on for all of them or are those 11 > specifically > > open for comment? > > Those were specifically chosen. The idea was that all documentation would > also > have it turned on (the template generator would add it to the bottom of > every > page). > > > Cheers, > > Andrew > > > > On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 at 10:40 Andrew Williams <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I see your point but I do not follow. There are various extensions of > > > Markdown (PHP Markdown Extra is the one I mentioned which is very > similar > > > to GFM) some of them understand the concept of front matter and either > try > > > to parse it or ignore it. Some don't. Any Markdown editor that is GFM > or > > > Markdown Extra will be able to handle and live preview the rest of the > > > content. > > > > > > This may not be 100% perfect in an external editor - but it mostly > works > > > well. With dokuwiki we have 0 external editors so 90% compatibility > seems > > > like a win, it's pretty easy to skip the front matter block when > editing > > > just like you would have to do when editing it on the website in the > > > current format. > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > > On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 at 10:34 Carsten Haitzler <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 09:28:16 +0000 Andrew Williams < > [email protected]> > > >> said: > > >> > > >> > Hi, > > >> > > > >> > I don't understand the hypothetical edit problem - it works here > and I > > >> see > > >> > no issues. Perhaps you can give a concrete example that you are > worried > > >> > about (i.e. a page we have) and I will check that it works as > expected? > > >> > > > >> > To satisfy the addition of dokuwiki includes, title etc the plugin > > >> > recognises "front matter" (as I mentioned before) this is not in the > > >> > standard but is quite common - jekyll and others do this to. That > > >> segment > > >> > can be ignored by a markdown parser if edited outside dokuwiki but > > >> allows > > >> > non-standard things like includes etc to occur. > > >> > > >> this is the bit i'm getting at. it's not in the standard, but your > goal > > >> is to > > >> "follow the standard". if you do follow it then you can't use such > > >> non-standard > > >> features. then things begin to get very limited. > > >> > > >> > Thanks, > > >> > Andrew > > >> > > > >> > On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 at 01:04 Carsten Haitzler <[email protected] > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 10:34:04 +0000 Andrew Williams < > > >> [email protected]> > > >> > > said: > > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi, > > >> > > > > > >> > > > When I use "Markdown" I mean those tools that are common in *at > > >> least* > > >> > > the > > >> > > > implementation of the core definition at > > >> > > > https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax - I do not > > >> mean the > > >> > > > concept of a simplified text markup. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > It is trivial to identify if a syntax complies to this and most > of > > >> those > > >> > > > with "markdown" in the title do so - github flavoured markdown > - php > > >> > > > markdown extra are a couple of popular ones (that happen to have > > >> > > extensions > > >> > > > in common as well, but that's a bonus). > > >> > > > Markdown as inspired bu John Gruber, is becoming somewhat > standard > > >> and > > >> > > that > > >> > > > allows us to expect interoperability greater than if we use a > > >> specific > > >> > > wiki > > >> > > > format. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I would like to be able to embed our API documentation into Edi > - > > >> others > > >> > > > (Samsung for example) would like to be able to embed it > elsewhere. > > >> Our > > >> > > > documentation writers would like to use a preview based editor > so > > >> that > > >> > > > their lives are not text based for the duration of the project > (did > > >> I > > >> > > > mention that markdown editors in dokuwiki support live > preview?). > > >> > > > > > >> > > > There are many things possible if we use a more common format. > At > > >> the > > >> > > same > > >> > > > time it does not remove functionality like including other > pages or > > >> > > editing > > >> > > > online - I don't say that out of opinion, I have the plugin > loaded > > >> here > > >> > > and > > >> > > > can use it as stated. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Why do you assert that the benefits I listed are not possible? > > >> > > > Andrew > > >> > > > > >> > > well for starters includes are not part of: > > >> > > > > >> > > https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax > > >> > > > > >> > > using just this "minimal markdown standard" will lead to issues > > >> allowing > > >> > > it to > > >> > > be editable (eg edit body but not the format/template). how will > it be > > >> > > sane to > > >> > > have a format/template for a page read-only but have body > editable? at > > >> > > least > > >> > > that is how i was originally seeing docs being laid out by using > > >> includes > > >> > > to do > > >> > > this. you say it doesn't remove including of pages ... yet the > > >> markdown > > >> > > doesn't > > >> > > support that as you point out... this is what has got me going > "this > > >> doesnt > > >> > > seem like a great idea". > > >> > > > > >> > > if you do use includes (and the markdown plugin can handle both > > >> dokuwiki > > >> > > format > > >> > > AND your flavor of markdown above at the same time ... which > somehow > > >> seems > > >> > > odd > > >> > > if it did), then these non-standard dokuwiki things are not > > >> interoperable > > >> > > with > > >> > > tools and other things etc. ... ? > > >> > > > > >> > > i'm having trouble reconciling the above. > > >> > > > > >> > > > On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 at 10:57 Carsten Haitzler < > [email protected] > > >> > > > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 09:17:05 +0000 Andrew Williams < > > >> > > [email protected]> > > >> > > > > said: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > specifically GFM vs commonmark. github call it markdown. > > >> > > stackoverflow's > > >> > > > > markdown is commonmark. they are not compatible > (strikethrough, > > >> tables > > >> > > > > etc.) ... there is no SINGLE markdown nor {"official one" > github > > >> > > markdown > > >> > > > > != > > >> > > > > stackoverflow (common mark) != remark (it is a markdown... of > > >> some sort > > >> > > > > that's > > >> > > > > partly compatible), vs trac vs dokuwiki vs mediawiki vs... > they > > >> all > > >> > > use a > > >> > > > > markdown of some sort. a shorthand generally simple/compressed > > >> metadata > > >> > > > > definition within a text file that's less strict and simpler > than > > >> > > > > something like > > >> > > > > html. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > i am disagreeing that there is a single specific common > makrdown > > >> format > > >> > > > > that is > > >> > > > > magically going to work everywhere markdown is used. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > if you want to say "commonmark" is the spec then > > >> > > > > http://spec.commonmark.org/0.28/ doesn't to my scan define > any > > >> way to > > >> > > > > include > > >> > > > > other files like dokuwiki markdown does, for example. so what > you > > >> say > > >> > > > > works is > > >> > > > > seemingly non-standard markdown, so you're back to custom > > >> markdown's > > >> > > again > > >> > > > > that > > >> > > > > are dependent on the wiki engine they run in. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > i know dokuwiki is both the wiki engine and a specification > for > > >> the > > >> > > > > markdown it > > >> > > > > understands. it's actually kind of a mix of markdown and > markup > > >> with > > >> > > > > somethings > > >> > > > > being html-like tags and others more like markdown... but i > know > > >> the > > >> > > name > > >> > > > > refers to both. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > my point is now you are going to introduce a different > markdown > > >> format > > >> > > > > that ... > > >> > > > > is not going to be compatible with other markdown engines (as > > >> above) > > >> > > or is > > >> > > > > not > > >> > > > > going to have the kinds of features needed to allow editing > online > > >> > > what is > > >> > > > > a > > >> > > > > mix of generated non-editable and editable blocks of content > (the > > >> > > includes > > >> > > > > solve/allow for this for example). > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > so i'm not sure where you are going with this. it seems to > just > > >> bring > > >> > > > > complexity (more markdown formats) without the benefits you > claim > > >> (see > > >> > > > > above). > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Hi, > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > I am struggling with the factual inaccuracies - phab is not > > >> markdown > > >> > > > > (they > > >> > > > > > call it "similar to" > > >> > > > > > > > >> https://secure.phabricator.com/book/phabricator/article/remarkup/), > > >> > > > > trac is > > >> > > > > > not markdown (it is inspired by previous wikis > > >> > > > > > https://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/WikiFormatting) but all of > this > > >> is > > >> > > > > > irrelevant to the point. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > MarkDown is a common format that many have extended. Case in > > >> point - > > >> > > we > > >> > > > > > were working on some documentation last night and one of the > > >> group > > >> > > did > > >> > > > > not > > >> > > > > > want to put it in the wiki yet so they uploaded it to github > > >> > > temporarily. > > >> > > > > > And you know what? Their web engine automatically formatted > it > > >> > > correctly > > >> > > > > - > > >> > > > > > I then loaded it into dokuwiki with markdown enabled and the > > >> same > > >> > > thing - > > >> > > > > > the content, heirarchy, markup and syntax highlighting all > just > > >> > > worked. > > >> > > > > > Whether we like it or not GitHub has changed the way that > people > > >> > > think > > >> > > > > > about social coding and their adoption of Markdown has had > a big > > >> > > impact > > >> > > > > on > > >> > > > > > people using it as a standard (there are book authoring > systems > > >> and > > >> > > > > > presentation apps using it as the main format). > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > What I was proposing is to use MarkDown instead of Dokuwiki > > >> syntax > > >> > > (due > > >> > > > > to > > >> > > > > > the benefits already listed) and this has no bearing on the > > >> choice of > > >> > > > > > dokuwiki or the functionality - it is merely the syntax > used. > > >> Online > > >> > > > > > editing works just as well, page includes also work through > > >> > > "frontmatter" > > >> > > > > > much as before. Your assertion that using any other format > > >> makes it > > >> > > > > > uneditable seems completely untrue - what is causing your > > >> concern > > >> > > here? > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Is it possible that in this discussion we have confused the > word > > >> > > dokuwiki > > >> > > > > > as a format and dokuwiki as a product? > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks, > > >> > > > > > Andrew > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 at 02:03 Carsten Haitzler < > > >> [email protected]> > > >> > > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Tue, 17 Oct 2017 10:31:34 +0000 Andrew Williams < > > >> > > > > [email protected]> > > >> > > > > > > said: > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Googling "is dokuwiki markdown?" returns a dokuwiki page > > >> stating > > >> > > > > > > "Markdown > > >> > > > > > > > is a text markup language. So is DokuWiki syntax. Or > > >> MediaWiki > > >> > > > > syntax. > > >> > > > > > > > There are similarities but none of them is a dialect of > the > > >> > > other". > > >> > > > > > > > The standards page https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7763 > > >> lists > > >> > > > > > > > http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/ as the > > >> original > > >> > > source > > >> > > > > and > > >> > > > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7764 lists recognised > > >> extensions > > >> > > > > > > including > > >> > > > > > > > https://michelf.ca/projects/php-markdown/extra/ and > > >> > > > > > > > > https://help.github.com/articles/github-flavored-markdown/ > > >> but > > >> > > > > nothing > > >> > > > > > > > about dokuwiki. > > >> > > > > > > > So you'll forgive me for saying that you calling > dokuwiki > > >> syntax > > >> > > > > markdown > > >> > > > > > > > does not make it so. > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > well i listed examples. i've been through many markdown > wiki > > >> > > systems > > >> > > > > over > > >> > > > > > > the > > >> > > > > > > years and none have been compatible (partially yes, > totally - > > >> no). > > >> > > all > > >> > > > > are > > >> > > > > > > described as markdown. phab has markdown... and it was > > >> incompatible > > >> > > > > with > > >> > > > > > > trac, > > >> > > > > > > both of which are incompatible with mediawiki and so on... > > >> but they > > >> > > > > share > > >> > > > > > > some > > >> > > > > > > similar elements and ideas common to markdowns like: > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > this **is bold** or //italic// (maybe they use '' or -- or > > >> other > > >> > > chars > > >> > > > > but > > >> > > > > > > the > > >> > > > > > > idea is core to markdown variants). > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > my point here is... dokuwiki is the wiki we're using. to > allow > > >> > > docs to > > >> > > > > be > > >> > > > > > > editable on a wiki we have to commit to the formatting of > that > > >> > > wiki as > > >> > > > > > > being > > >> > > > > > > "the format" because otherwise it's not editable. sure. > add > > >> more > > >> > > > > plugins > > >> > > > > > > more > > >> > > > > > > more formats but then you just added "yet another > markdown" > > >> format > > >> > > and > > >> > > > > we > > >> > > > > > > now > > >> > > > > > > have to deal with 2 of them in the same wiki. > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Interoperability is good for us all. It means we can > easily > > >> > > change > > >> > > > > > > tooling > > >> > > > > > > > if we need to, it means the learning curve is lower and > it > > >> means > > >> > > we > > >> > > > > can > > >> > > > > > > do > > >> > > > > > > > cool things like embedding it in Edi etc as the format > is > > >> well > > >> > > > > recognised > > >> > > > > > > > etc. > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > that just does not exist in the wiki world. see above. > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I agree with all the ideals of editing online etc etc - > the > > >> > > choice of > > >> > > > > > > > format should make no difference here as the dokuwiki is > > >> pretty > > >> > > > > simple > > >> > > > > > > even > > >> > > > > > > > for their chosen format no? > > >> > > > > > > > Andrew > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > i frankly don't much care what the format is... but i > chose > > >> > > dokuwiki > > >> > > > > > > because it > > >> > > > > > > had all the elements needed to be able to build a > > >> documentation > > >> > > system > > >> > > > > > > already. > > >> > > > > > > it could include multiple sources into a single page (thus > > >> allowing > > >> > > > > some > > >> > > > > > > parts > > >> > > > > > > of a page to be editable, others not and be a generated > > >> template). > > >> > > etc. > > >> > > > > > > ... by > > >> > > > > > > switching to something else we now have to redo all that > > >> evaluation > > >> > > > > etc. :( > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 at 20:53 Carsten Haitzler < > > >> > > [email protected]> > > >> > > > > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 09:25:20 +0000 Andrew Williams < > > >> > > > > > > [email protected]> > > >> > > > > > > > > said: > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately dokuwiki is not markdown - > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Well... it is markdown AND markup with an eclectic > mix of > > >> both. > > >> > > > > there > > >> > > > > > > > > isn't a > > >> > > > > > > > > single markdown format. every wiki has it's own which > is > > >> > > slightly > > >> > > > > > > > > different, > > >> > > > > > > > > but commonly they have very short ways to do a link > > >> (especially > > >> > > > > inside > > >> > > > > > > the > > >> > > > > > > > > wiki), and use **, //, for bold/italic or similar, > equals > > >> for > > >> > > > > headlines > > >> > > > > > > > > etc. ... so i'd call it markdown. it is a very > specific > > >> kind of > > >> > > > > > > markdown. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > https://www.dokuwiki.org/wiki:syntax , what I was > > >> proposing > > >> > > > > moves > > >> > > > > > > us to > > >> > > > > > > > > the > > >> > > > > > > > > > php extended markdown which is well known and > supported > > >> by > > >> > > most > > >> > > > > php > > >> > > > > > > based > > >> > > > > > > > > > apps if not more. > > >> > > > > > > > > > By changing to a standardised format we can have > better > > >> > > > > > > interoperability > > >> > > > > > > > > > and also have our auto generated docs integrate > into the > > >> > > website > > >> > > > > much > > >> > > > > > > > > > better. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > why do we need interoperability? the docs really only > > >> have one > > >> > > main > > >> > > > > > > > > purpose. > > >> > > > > > > > > to be displayed by dokuwiki. as i gather you are > > >> proposing to > > >> > > put > > >> > > > > > > content > > >> > > > > > > > > into > > >> > > > > > > > > the dokuwiki content tree ... and that by definition > is > > >> > > dokuwiki > > >> > > > > > > > > markdown/up/whatever ... > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > one of the ideas for our documentation was to have the > > >> docs be > > >> > > live > > >> > > > > > > > > editable > > >> > > > > > > > > content on the wiki and auto-generation from source is > > >> really > > >> > > all > > >> > > > > about > > >> > > > > > > > > building the templates and raw "code content" then > having > > >> > > sections > > >> > > > > > > that are > > >> > > > > > > > > user editable along even with user discussion threads. > > >> the php > > >> > > doc > > >> > > > > site > > >> > > > > > > > > works > > >> > > > > > > > > this way so questions and answers about apis, classes > or > > >> topics > > >> > > > > stay > > >> > > > > > > > > together > > >> > > > > > > > > with the docs and become part of them. if the docs on > > >> something > > >> > > > > could > > >> > > > > > > be > > >> > > > > > > > > improved, any user can improve them just by editing > the > > >> wiki. > > >> > > thus > > >> > > > > i > > >> > > > > > > see > > >> > > > > > > > > the > > >> > > > > > > > > need to have the wiki format be consistent and the > docs > > >> are > > >> > > very > > >> > > > > > > closely > > >> > > > > > > > > tied > > >> > > > > > > > > to dokuwiki. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > As for languages the figuring was that we have a > > >> specific > > >> > > list of > > >> > > > > > > > > supported > > >> > > > > > > > > > languages for the new interfaces work. I may have > > >> missed a > > >> > > line > > >> > > > > or > > >> > > > > > > two as > > >> > > > > > > > > > there was nothing to add or I forgot - but we could > be > > >> more > > >> > > > > explicit > > >> > > > > > > for > > >> > > > > > > > > > sure. > > >> > > > > > > > > > What do the community think are our official > supported > > >> > > > > languages? We > > >> > > > > > > > > have a > > >> > > > > > > > > > lot of manual binding or external contributions so > it’s > > >> kind > > >> > > of > > >> > > > > hard > > >> > > > > > > to > > >> > > > > > > > > > tell... > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I'd say lua is probably the most important and > > >> interesting. > > >> > > it's > > >> > > > > > > already > > >> > > > > > > > > used > > >> > > > > > > > > for documentation generation. it's used inside efl > (edje > > >> and > > >> > > evas > > >> > > > > > > > > filters). it > > >> > > > > > > > > also is the only language other than c++ that doesn't > need > > >> > > extra > > >> > > > > > > > > dependencies > > >> > > > > > > > > beyond what efl already has. we have libelua even as > an > > >> easy > > >> > > front > > >> > > > > end > > >> > > > > > > to > > >> > > > > > > > > use > > >> > > > > > > > > for using lua script in your code. c++ i'd say is a > very > > >> close > > >> > > > > second > > >> > > > > > > > > since it > > >> > > > > > > > > also needs now extra dependencies and we already > build by > > >> > > default > > >> > > > > out > > >> > > > > > > of > > >> > > > > > > > > the > > >> > > > > > > > > box like we do with lua. the next batch would be > python > > >> (which > > >> > > we > > >> > > > > have > > >> > > > > > > no > > >> > > > > > > > > generators for in tree yet) and js (node.js/v8), with > c# > > >> at > > >> > > the end > > >> > > > > > > ATM. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > >> > > > > > > > > > Andrew > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 at 05:48, Carsten Haitzler < > > >> > > > > [email protected] > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 17:53:09 +0000 Andrew > Williams < > > >> > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > said: > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking at how we should be trying to > > >> structure our > > >> > > > > > > > > documentation as > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > we update for interfaces and slowly move aside > the > > >> legacy > > >> > > > > pages. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > I've made this page to summarise my thinking so > far > > >> - > > >> > > > > capturing > > >> > > > > > > what > > >> > > > > > > > > we > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > should migrate, what we should add and a few > items > > >> that > > >> > > don't > > >> > > > > > > seem > > >> > > > > > > > > to fit > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > yet in the new structure. I have linked tickets > > >> from the > > >> > > > > main doc > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > improvement task as well to see how much we've > got > > >> > > covered. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > https://phab.enlightenment.org/w/doc_system/doc_structure/ > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > what about lua? and c++? at least your sample list > > >> seems > > >> > > to be > > >> > > > > a > > >> > > > > > > bit > > >> > > > > > > > > > > inconsistent with languages in sections. is this > > >> intended? > > >> > > or > > >> > > > > just > > >> > > > > > > an > > >> > > > > > > > > > > oversight? > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know what you think - I hope this > is > > >> > > heading > > >> > > > > in the > > >> > > > > > > > > right > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > direction. Of note is that it splits the dev > docs > > >> out > > >> > > from > > >> > > > > the > > >> > > > > > > user > > >> > > > > > > > > docs > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > which will also make it easier to transition :) > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > comment about .md.txt vs .txt - why? everything > in the > > >> > > wiki is > > >> > > > > > > already > > >> > > > > > > > > > > .txt and > > >> > > > > > > > > > > it's markdown by definition... if you create a > wiki > > >> page > > >> > > its > > >> > > > > always > > >> > > > > > > > > just > > >> > > > > > > > > > > .txt > > >> > > > > > > > > > > when going through the web ui... why change the > > >> pattern > > >> > > already > > >> > > > > > > there. > > >> > > > > > > > > i > > >> > > > > > > > > > > also > > >> > > > > > > > > > > am not sure the urls to pages will come out > nicely if > > >> its > > >> > > > > .md.txt > > >> > > > > > > > > instead > > >> > > > > > > > > > > of > > >> > > > > > > > > > > just .txt. e.g.: > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://www.enlightenment.org/docs/c/start > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > is the url for docs/c/start.txt > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > otherwise i see no issues with what you put > there. :) > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > http://andywilliams.me > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > http://ajwillia.ms > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of > the > > >> > > world's > > >> > > > > most > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! > > >> > > http://sdm.link/slashdot > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, > therefore I > > >> am" > > >> > > > > > > > > -------------- > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Carsten Haitzler - [email protected] > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > >> > > > > > > > > > http://andywilliams.me > > >> > > > > > > > > > http://ajwillia.ms > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > >> > > > > > > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I > am" > > >> > > > > > > -------------- > > >> > > > > > > > > Carsten Haitzler - [email protected] > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > >> > > > > > > > http://andywilliams.me > > >> > > > > > > > http://ajwillia.ms > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > -- > > >> > > > > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > > >> > > > > -------------- > > >> > > > > > > Carsten Haitzler - [email protected] > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > -- > > >> > > > > > http://andywilliams.me > > >> > > > > > http://ajwillia.ms > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's > most > > >> > > > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > >> > > > > > [email protected] > > >> > > > > > > > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > -- > > >> > > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > > >> > > -------------- > > >> > > > > Carsten Haitzler - [email protected] > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > -- > > >> > > > http://andywilliams.me > > >> > > > http://ajwillia.ms > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > -- > > >> > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > > >> -------------- > > >> > > Carsten Haitzler - [email protected] > > >> > > > > >> > > -- > > >> > http://andywilliams.me > > >> > http://ajwillia.ms > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > -------------- > > >> Carsten Haitzler - [email protected] > > >> > > >> -- > > > http://andywilliams.me > > > http://ajwillia.ms > > > > > -- > > http://andywilliams.me > > http://ajwillia.ms > > > -- > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > Carsten Haitzler - [email protected] > > -- http://andywilliams.me http://ajwillia.ms ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
