Hi, To say that it is publicly available behind a BETA flag is one thing, but to call it a Beta Release is quite a stretch. To reference The Next Generation Lexicon: "Beta phase generally begins when the software is feature complete but likely to contain a number of known or unknown bugs.". Given the current state of the interfaces I would say that to treat it like that is exceptionally generous. I have never been anywhere where the developers or users have been told "It's in beta - the APIs will change - we don't care" which is common parlance around here.
I think it's unfair to say that releasing a subset has "no value". The APIs described allow you to build a complete application - albeit without a graphical front end - which is a great start, even a solid foundation. With a little more work we could have Efl.Canvas and Efl.Gfx in there to get early access to the new graphical APIs. It seems that Efl.Ui is sinking the most time and we are having to rewrite areas of it as the underlying libraries change. Surely nailing the underpinnings and releasing them gives us a stable platform to deliver on. Calling for release discussions seems required to focus us. As everyone acknowledges we are a team spread very thin and if we continue to have little or no direction for release we will continue to work on what is interesting and not to wrap up an API that is actually usable and reliable to anyone. Right now I don't think it's clear what we are trying to achieve. It would be a death knell to our chances of being taken seriously if we once again take 10 years to do a major upgrade. Regards, Andrew On Thu, 7 Dec 2017 at 01:22 Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: > On Wed, 06 Dec 2017 19:45:39 -0500 Cedric Bail <ced...@ddlm.me> said: > > > Hi, > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > Subject: Re: [E-devel] What are we going to release? > > > Local Time: December 6, 2017 6:13 AM > > > UTC Time: December 6, 2017 2:13 PM > > > From: dan...@octaforge.org > > > To: enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 6, 2017, at 14:26, Andrew Williams wrote: > > > > > >> Hi all, > > >> As our last release was over 4 months ago I think we really need to > > >> figure > > >> what the next release will be, and when, so we can start focusing on > > >> making > > >> that subsection of our work releasable. > > >> Clearly we are not going to get the interfaces completed any time > soon. > > >> The > > >> list of things to port keeps getting longer and we have too many > > >> outstanding patches to count. I have heard suggestions that we could > > >> release a subset, for example Efl_Core and Efl_Net now that they we > have > > >> the Efl namespace split into groups. > > >> This would mean releasing the API ( > > >> https://www.enlightenment.org/develop/api/start) that is prefixed > efl_io, > > >> efl_net, efl_event or efl_loop and that's about it (as well as eina > and > > >> eo > > >> which need to get merged into the non-legacy docs somehow). > > >> Is this a good approach? Right now it seems like we need to focus on > > >> completing portions of this and cut a release of some sort so that we > can > > >> have people look at usage, bindings and porting existing code. I'd > love > > >> to > > >> get our website updated to filter just the APIs we plan to release > soon. > > >> And then generate another section for the work-in-progress completion > of > > >> interfaces... > > >> > > >> Hi, > > >> > > >> I told you on IRC already but I'm going to say it here publicly - > > >> personally I don't think it's a good idea to release APIs unless we're > > >> sure that it's really the API we want (i.e. it can be defined in > Eolian > > >> once it's stable, it can be used for bindings and it's > > >> real-world-tested, i.e. we're sure of its practicality). I don't see > any > > >> real benefit in releasing a subset of our APIs, only potential issues. > > > > We have been working on EFL interfaces for years now. Literrally. We > have to > > do a release in the next 6 months. The main question is how to get there > and > > have something good enough for everyone. > > > > My current take is that we finish cleaning up Efl_Core and Efl_Net for a > beta > > release (which mean no further change except if something is really bad) > and > > do an EFL release with that. This would make it possible for people who > want > > to do binding to start working on it and report problem they have during > 1.22 > > release cycle. This would be the only time we could still break our API > in my > > point of view, but only if it is asked by binding developers. Finally > for EFL > > 1.22, we will release an Efl_Ui component. and everything below will > also be > > marked stable. > > ALL of eo/interfaces is already released as "beta". has been now for a very > long time. how does this change anything? we have NEEDED to make changes > that > have broken what we have. i don;'t see this as any change to the current > status. > > > This mean the remaining question is what is left to do for this. On my > side : > > - Remove reference to graphic interface when including Efl_Core/Efl_Net. > > - Finish migration to Eina_Future > > > > If you have still some stuff on your plate, you should let us know. I do > feel > > that for helping Stefan we should open a ticket to track this last task > until > > a release. > > > > Cedric > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > _______________________________________________ > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > -- > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- http://andywilliams.me http://ajwillia.ms ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
