On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:43:06 -0500 Youness Alaoui <[email protected]> said:
1. you provided a script to do something that wasn't asked for - the request was not to give them a script. it was for us to do it - and you still haven't acknowledged that that is no better than what they have now, so what is the point? 2. i'm not apologizing for something i didn't actually do. as you didn't read the facts and refuse to, your "condescending bullshit" line is in itself condescending bullshit - you pretend to know what happened when you won't even look. > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Carsten Haitzler > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:49:46 -0500 Youness Alaoui > > <[email protected]> said: > > > > WE were asked to generate the tarballs. WE... not him. if he wants > > tarballs he > > can make them himself. i would never have said no. i can't and won't stop > > him - > > he can make the tarballs all he likes! but WE were asked to make them. that > > means one of us - presumably me, has to generate them UPLOAD them and then > > TELL > > SOMEONE they are uploaded and exist! if HE wants tarballs and wants to > > build > > them himself.. absolutely. go ahead! by all means! he can also just use > > make > > dist which is simpler. but that isn't what was asked for. > > > > 1 - read what I wrote, I said that for now he used the script, until the > script gets put on a server on which I don't have access > 2 - why "presumably me" ? > > > > > > > I haven't proven your point, I don't see where I did. On the contrary, I > > > proved that you can create a simple script that does it. Who asked for > > any > > > announcements? who even asked for uploads? The guy used my script to > > > generate the tarballs from svn on his own machine and then used the > > > tarballs in his build system and was happy about it. Ideally, the script > > > should run on a server in a cron job and copy the files to a publically > > > available directory, I'm not uploading the files because I don't have > > > access to such server. But that is outside the scope of what was asked, I > > > helped him get what he wanted, he's happy about it, he'll continue > > porting > > > to BSD or whatever he wants to do with it. In the end, we didn't lose a > > > contributor, and that's the final goal that was reached (who btw said > > that > > > he got demotivated after talking to you because of the way you spoke). > > > Of course, it's less useful than a make distcheck, that's why an actual > > > build system would be needed for continuous integration checks, but that > > is > > > besides the point. They wanted a tarball, I provided a tarball, nothing > > > more, nothing less. > > > Stop assuming what the other person wants, and then make judgment calls > > on > > > what you think they may or may not want. That's not how you can build > > your > > > community, by closing all doors in the face of everyone who wants to > > help. > > > > dude... did you READ AT ALL WHAT VTORRI ASKED FOR? my god! you really want > > to > > just run around with your opinions without ever reading the facts. they > > asked > > to HAVE daily snapshots. they aren't asking how THEY can do it themselves. > > they > > are asking for them to BE done for them. you OFFERED an alternative. > > > > man - YOU demotivate ME. your snide comments, grandstanding on your soapbox > > without ever bothering to READ the discussion or facts at hand - which you > > very > > clearly didn't bother to read, or your understanding of english is not so > > great. when someone asks to have snapshots - they ask for tarballs, which > > need > > to be generated and uploaded. we can generate them on the server, but a > > cron > > job is no better than a random svn checkout done by them. if you READ the > > emails and READ the irc discussion you might have the facts. > > > > on email i asked what's so hard about svn. on irc i got the response that > > they > > have no idea when to svn checkout because they don't know if it works or > > not. > > put that together with a cron job either done by them OR us is the same > > thing. > > nothing has improved. > > > > pointless email as you're simply not reading the actual content. > > > you don't seem to read what I wrote, you ignore the facts.. the facts are > not the commits or how bad they were, the facts were your attitude and > condescending bullshit. but yeah,you don't seem to be able to acknowledge > that, since you're perfect and everyone else is wrong. > > Thank you Vincent and Gustavo for sharing your concerns about this, and > it's too sad that the new contributor has become another victim of raster's > poor social skills. That's what I wanted to avoid, that's what I wanted > raster to understand, and I was hoping for him to reply with something like > "sorry if I offended you, that wasn't my purpose" and that's it, the guy > stays with us, but I guess raster has too much pride and is too > self-centered to recognize his own faults. > I think I will follow Vincent's advice and not reply to this thread > anymore, raster clearly showed he has no comprehension of what people are > trying to tell him here, so this is just an endless drama with no possible > resolution. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Carsten Haitzler <[email protected] > > >wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:55:46 -0500 Youness Alaoui > > > > <[email protected]> said: > > > > > > > > so you've basically proven my point - it's the same as an svn > > checkout... > > > > and > > > > that script still doesn't upload them, or make any announcement that > > they > > > > have > > > > been created. it's actually less useful than make distc (or distcheck) > > and > > > > much > > > > longer. there is no quality checking there... and which point it's > > > > busywork. > > > > > > > > > Here, I just wrote a script : > > > > > > > > > > > http://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/devs/kakaroto/create_tarballs.sh > > > > > > > > > > It defaults to building tarballs for eina eet evas ecore embryo edje > > > > efreet > > > > > e_dbus eeze (list suggested by Vincent), but you can specify any > > libs you > > > > > want as arguments. > > > > > It does the svn export (no .svn dirs) autogens then tars them. I > > didn't > > > > > make it do a make distcheck because that requires a Makefile, which > > > > > requires configure to run, which itself will require dependent > > libraries. > > > > > This should be enough for the purposes of providing a simple > > mechanism (a > > > > > tarball) to those who do not want to bother with checking out svn. > > > > > If this could go into whatever server as a cron job, and make it > > dump the > > > > > tarballs to a directory somewhere (and let the web server's indexing > > take > > > > > care of listing the files), I think that should be enough. > > > > > Jonathan, let me know if that's all you need or if you need something > > > > else. > > > > > And if Carsten was right and you need a guarantee that those > > tarballs are > > > > > 'tested and stable', then let the answer be "yes", and let's just > > assume > > > > it > > > > > is stable, the code in svn should be stable and we are in feature > > freeze > > > > > already.. also that's what we all use daily so it should be fine. > > > > > > > > > > I hope that helps. > > > > > Youness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Youness Alaoui < > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Carsten Haitzler > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:32 -0500 Youness Alaoui > > > > > >> <[email protected]> said: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... > > > > > >> > As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's > > why > > > > > >> there's > > > > > >> > something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, > > > > might > > > > > >> be > > > > > >> > good to use these awesome technologies. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> hooray for your snide comments. wonderful attitude. you were not > > > > there on > > > > > >> irc, > > > > > >> nor did you even seem to have read the material at hand (the > > patches). > > > > > >> seriously, what's up with you? > > > > > >> > > > > > > It wasn't my remarks, it was the remarks from someone who wants to > > > > > > contribute to the project and who got offended by the way you > > talked to > > > > > > him. All I did was point out what I said before in the hopes that > > > > you'll > > > > > > realize that your own attitude is a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> do i suddenly have to be mr. nice to everything? "oh wow! how > > > > wonderful! > > > > > >> so > > > > > >> awesome that you broke evas's api on your openbsd packages. so > > great > > > > to > > > > > >> see. > > > > > >> we'll love hearing the app developers ask us for help about their > > > > apps not > > > > > >> working on openbsd, when we will have zero clue that it was an > > api/abi > > > > > >> breakage > > > > > >> added specifically on openbsd. that's just awesome. please - make > > more > > > > > >> patches > > > > > >> just like that!". > > > > > >> > > > > > >> if its bad, it's bad. reasons were explicitly given for it being > > bad. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > This has nothing to do with the patches, I didn't know there were > > > > patches, > > > > > > I didn't see any patches, and I don't care about them either. My > > point > > > > is > > > > > > you should learn how to talk to people if you don't want to drive > > away > > > > all > > > > > > the contributors and end up alone in the project. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> and as for "well just use scripts" - have to write and test those > > too. > > > > > >> and if > > > > > >> its just a cron job... then its NO BETTER THAN A RANDOM SVN > > CHECKOUT. > > > > > >> that was > > > > > >> my point... which you failed to read. if you don't sit down and > > spend > > > > at > > > > > >> least > > > > > >> some qa time on the tarballs... then its pointless. this is my > > point > > > > on a > > > > > >> mental block. i keep hearing it from people "omg !!!! svn trunk > > must > > > > be so > > > > > >> unstable!!! how can i use it?" - it's the image that just because > > its > > > > in > > > > > >> trunk > > > > > >> (or head/master/whatever) that it must be so unstable and a > > tarball > > > > made > > > > > >> every > > > > > >> day is going to be better. it's a RELEASE process of freezing and > > > > fixing > > > > > >> just > > > > > >> bugs that improves quality... not "make dist; scp *.tar.gz ...". > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > For you it's no better than a random svn checkout, good, but if > > they > > > > want > > > > > > a tarball, give them a tarball, as for "what if it doesn't build", > > > > well it > > > > > > should always build, noone should even commit anything without > > testing > > > > his > > > > > > work and making sure it doesn't break anything.. while breakage > > does > > > > > > happen, it's not something that happens 10 times a day, and it's > > still > > > > > > fine, if a tarball is fucked, then you can always say "use the one > > from > > > > > > tomorrow". > > > > > > There is a difference between having a build system do a wget and a > > > > build > > > > > > system do a svn checkout, maybe that's why they need tarballs, so > > they > > > > > > prepare their build system and when the release is out, they just > > > > change > > > > > > the URL instead of changing the whole system of downloading the > > > > image... > > > > > > And it's not about "svn is unstable" mentality, it's about > > "tarballs > > > > are > > > > > > more convenient". > > > > > > As for the scripts, no you don't have to write and test those, you > > can > > > > say > > > > > > "ok fine, someone write it and we'll put it on the server as a cron > > > > job", > > > > > > if noone does write the script for you, then too bad for them, > > it's not > > > > > > your responsability. If you wanted, I would have made the script > > > > myself.. > > > > > > we already have a script that creates a svn tarball everyday for > > aMSN, > > > > you > > > > > > could reuse the same script basically, and I could adapt it to the > > EFL. > > > > > > It's the same as svn? yeah, so what? it's better to help them by > > giving > > > > > > out the tarball even if it's the same as svn rather than telling > > them > > > > to > > > > > > fuck off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > if they require tarballs to > > > > > >> > > >> test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... > > i > > > > don't > > > > > >> have > > > > > >> > > the > > > > > >> > > >> time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily > > > > fetch > > > > > >> from > > > > > >> > > svn. > > > > > >> > > >> it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE > > work > > > > on > > > > > >> our > > > > > >> > > part. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final > > archive > > > > > >> will be > > > > > >> > > ok. > > > > > >> > > > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc > > > > before > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> > > > final archive. > > > > > >> > > > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >>> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, > > and he > > > > > >> told me > > > > > >> > > that > > > > > >> > > >>> such snapshots will help him too. > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so > > other > > > > than > > > > > >> a > > > > > >> > > mental > > > > > >> > > >> block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an > > > > > >> unwillingness to > > > > > >> > > use it > > > > > >> > > >> because of a mental block, i don't see the point. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many > > > > time I > > > > > >> > > > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating > > it > > > > is. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a > > > > different > > > > > >> > > matter - but > > > > > >> > > >> we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the > > efl > > > > trees > > > > > >> we > > > > > >> > > have. > > > > > >> > > >> only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs > > and > > > > just > > > > > >> > > merged them > > > > > >> > > >> into a single efl tree. > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >>> Vincent > > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > >> > > >>> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > > >> > > >>> Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > > >> > > >>> Register now > > > > > >> > > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > > >> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> > > >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > >> > > >>> [email protected] > > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> -- > > > > > >> > > >> ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > > > > > >> -------------- > > > > > >> > > >> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) [email protected] > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > >> > > >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > > >> > > >> Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > > >> > > >> Register now > > > > > >> > > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> > > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > >> > > >> [email protected] > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > >> > > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > > >> > > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > > >> > > > Register now > > > > > >> > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > >> > > > [email protected] > > > > > >> > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > -- > > > > > >> > > Bruno Dilly > > > > > >> > > Senior Developer > > > > > >> > > ProFUSION embedded systems > > > > > >> > > http://profusion.mobi > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > >> > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > > >> > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > > >> > > Register now > > > > > >> > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > >> > > [email protected] > > > > > >> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > >> > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > > >> > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > > >> > Register now > > > > > >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > >> > [email protected] > > > > > >> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -- > > > > > >> ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > > > > -------------- > > > > > >> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) [email protected] > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > > >> Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > > >> Register now > > > > > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > > Register now > > > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > > -------------- > > > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) [email protected] > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) [email protected] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
