On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 2:14 AM, Vincent Torri <[email protected]> wrote: > On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 2:00 AM, Carsten Haitzler <[email protected]> > wrote: >> On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 10:12:23 +1000 David Seikel <[email protected]> said: >> >>> On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 00:15:25 +0100 Vincent Torri >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> > On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Maxime Villard <[email protected]> >>> > wrote: >>> > > Le 17/12/2012 01:10, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) a écrit : >>> > >> the reasons are many but here are some: >>> > >> >>> > >> 1. devs are almost all on linux... so guess what? they support the >>> > >> os they work on. >>> > >> 2. frankly linux has much more momentum than the bsd's (excluding >>> > >> osx as you say) and that lead as i see is only increasing. >>> > >> 3. the only other really "relevant" platforms are probably osx and >>> > >> windows. both of these can be dealt with. yes i know about psl1ght >>> > >> and many other more niche users. evil is there to fill in gaps for >>> > >> windows. it can provide shm _open by opening a file on disk and >>> > >> mmaping it like it already does. if there is an ability to force a >>> > >> file in windows to never be flushed to disk unless memory pressure >>> > >> would force it to be swapped out to the pagefile - then this is >>> > >> effectively the same behaviour... except it survivies a reboot. >>> > >> for osx - if there is a tmpfs that lives in ram, an shm_open can >>> > >> be provided that redirects to there. i don't know if there is - no >>> > >> osx. 4. for decades linux users have been at the bad end of the >>> > >> stick with people simply saying "well be posix compliant! make >>> > >> your own drivers" we won't support you!"... the tables are >>> > >> turning. slowly - in bits and pieces. and most linux users/devs >>> > >> are of the mindset of "we had to support oursevles for years... >>> > >> and so we did. time you did the same". :) >>> > >> >>> > >> the issues on the most part can be solved. the problem is that for >>> > >> the vast number of the core devs.. it's not THEIR issue (with some >>> > >> exceptions - yes vincent... :) i know :)). ecore-extn was >>> > >> optionally compileable before because i know it uses shm_open and >>> > >> so i made it an option. it also brought in ecore-con and >>> > >> ecore-ipc. these options are going away now though, so the problem >>> > >> is no longer going to be avoided. cserve2 - similar story. we've >>> > >> had cserve for years now and no one uses it - it was optional. >>> > >> cserve2 will become mandatory because it NEEDS to be tested and >>> > >> exercised en-masse. without something like cserve2 - we will bloat >>> > >> out badly if people write actual efl APPS. cserve2 is there to >>> > >> help contain that bloat before it begins. people are already >>> > >> writing efl apps, so it solves and existing problem anyway. the >>> > >> issues just need solving. in both the eore-extn code and in >>> > >> cserve2, the shm_open/mmap stuff is encapsulated and easy to >>> > >> replace etc. - it just has not been because of the above. the devs >>> > >> all have systems that have shm_open... so its not a priority for >>> > >> us and your todo lists are forever full. example. there is a case >>> > >> with ecore-extn where u can easly get a lock deadlock if you use >>> > >> it in a certain way. reality is people do use it that way and that >>> > >> problem is by far more important to me than shm_open stuff. :) >>> > > >>> > > So, excepted me, nobody uses and feels concerned by BSD's ? >>> > >>> > they don't care about other OSs. They work exclusively on linux and >>> > don't even try to think about other OSs. It implies that a port for >>> > another OS than linux has to implement very bad hacks and a ton of >>> > work, like i did for Windows, to try to *mimic* what is done with >>> > linux. >>> >>> For at least one of the large projects I'm involved in, there's always >>> people screaming for a Mac version. I have to patiently explain to >>> them that A) I'm poor and can't afford a Mac for development. B) Apple >>> wont let people do Mac development on a non Apple computer, so I can't >>> legally use a VM like I do for Windows development. >>> >>> I dunno about Mac OSX being a "proper" BSD, but I do care about it >>> enough on behalf of my users that I hope EFL stuff works there when I >>> can finally afford a development Mac. I also hope that Mac and BSD are >>> close enough that supporting one mostly works for the other. >>> >>> I care about Android, coz I think smart phones are the next >>> generation. I don't care about iPhone, coz Apple makes it way to >>> expensive to develop for them, and too tightly controlled. >>> >>> I care about Linux, coz that's my OS of choice. >>> >>> So I care about other OS's, even if it's a big pain in the arse. >> >> i think you made the point well.. caring and actually going and spending the >> time/money on each and every os out there is another matter. to care and >> think >> about it is what we do, but it's often a "well this can be solved on these >> other >> platforms somehow - so that's a bridge to cross when/if we get there.". >> >> i can't cross that bridge with windows in any easy form. it will take me an >> immense amount of time to set up a development env on the only machine i have > > i have written a wiki for that. One can set up a development toolchain > for windows, on linux, in less than 10 minutes. Add the download of a > zip file for the dependencies. One can have a complete dev env in less > than 30 mn. > >> that has windows (dual boot), or spend money on a windows licensed copy for a >> vmware setup and also spend that time... then i have to, as you mention... >> buy a >> mac... then i need to set up vm's to install openbsd, freebsd, netbsd, >> blahblahblah... > > that's what i planned to do on my new computer. And that's what i have > already done (windows and solaris) on my old computer. If I have done > it, why other devs didn't ?
also, that question is purely rhetoric... Vincent ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
