On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 10:45:13 -0500 "Felix Boecker"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> what transparency does E17 actually do? anything like what KDE 3.4 does? I
> have heard about transparency in E17 but so far I've only found reports of
> fake transparency in console windows.

as i keep saying - and people don't listen. e17 does NEITHER fake trans
(pseudo-trans) NOR does it do real trans. x doesnt do real trans. to get the
LOOK of real trans you need to run a compositing manager than redirect rendering
through it's own display pipeline thus the COMPOSITE MANAGER is doing trans. x
is not. e17 has no compositing manager currently and no support for the
extensions to do it. nor will it. i will look into e18 for this. e17 is not
goign to have big changes made to support unstable, experimental and mostly "not
available" extensions (available onyl to a small minority who have upgraded to
servers with this extension - and even so to use xrender is a HUGE hit and miss.
if i do not specially add driver options to my nvidia drivers then 100% of ALL
my machines have no acceleration for xrender at ALL - and if i do add an option
then then only 1 of 4 machines has acceleration. that acceleration accelerates 1
OPERATION in  xrender only. that is 1:1 scaled blends. it does NOT accelerate
any transforms. now if you do all the figuring out - on average the number of
people able to do this with acceleration is a very very very small percentage of
users. they may be vocal and all rave that "ooh it works for me" but that's a
minority. e17 will not be working on that support. e18 will hopefully giving
drivers time to catch up, more people time to install newer x servers etc.

also note - if there is no acceleration the SOFTWARE FALLBACKS used by x are SO
abysmal they may as well not exist - they are in the area of 40-100 TIMES slower
than evas's software rendering for example. that means if evas is doing some
rendering now and it feels a bit jerkey (5 fps let's say) you can go get some
coffe between screen updates if it were to use xrender.

just to note - x.org is working on improving software fallbacks, but it will
take time and even longer till people upgrade. then is the big problem of
drivers. some - like nvidia, will be broken until nvdia finally decide to do
something about it. ati as well (on newer cards).

now back to e17 and trans. e17 does REAL trans WITHIN its rendered components -
like borders, menus, desktop, modules, etc. as evas does this by itself. 

> --Fx
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel Kozlowski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "FORT Yannick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [e-users] Windows Vista
> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:03:39 -0400
> 
> > 
> > On Thu, 2005-07-28 at 16:50 +0200, FORT Yannick wrote:
> > > Ricardo Birmann wrote:
> > > > well, i am sure that xfree does not implement true 
> > > transparency, but i > think xorg does.... more than that, i think 
> > > it ca be used with E17
> > >
> > >
> > > If you consider "very experimental, totaly not optimal, working 
> > > on some hardware only, no software manages it correctly" as "it 
> > > does", ok, that is true, but i don't consider that (of course, 
> > > having an ATI videocard may be changing my opinion about real 
> > > transparency)
> > >
> > I have used the composite extension on Xorg just to test it out  and it
> > appears to work well. As far as WM integration goes i am sure it will
> > take a release or two of  the major WM to integrate true transparency
> > ( I think KDE will have it at 4.0 if not 3.x { x | x>5 } ). but it will
> > be here before Vista shows up.
> > 
> > >
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> 
> 
> 
> May the Source be with You!
> 
> Felix
> 
> 
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------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    [EMAIL PROTECTED]
裸好多                              [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本)


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