Kim Woelders a écrit :
> Michel Briand wrote:
>
>> It's amasing!
>>
>> E16 works for years, and even if I switched to Entranced one year ago,
>> I still
>> use E16 because it's a STABLE environment I can rely on.
>>
>> I use E16 on 4 computers, 2 at home and 2 at work, and I use the same
>> customizations for more than 6 years:
>>
>> - all important features are keybinded (switch, maximize, shade,
>> iconify, ...)
>> - all my favorite programs are binded too (scrot, feh, rox, ... + a
>> number of
>> scripts of mine for start/pause/stop CD or XMMS)
>> - my file menu and sub-menus are filled with all my fav applications too
>>
>> All that stuff I repeat DONT HAVE CHANGED FOR YEAR.
>>
>> Users that want to USE their computer to do some duty work, or even
>> users that
>> want to USE their computer to hack for other projects, need a STABLE
>> environment.
>>
>> *** SO I WONDER WHY YOU HAVE CHANGED THE CONFIG FILE STRUCTURE AND SYNTAX
>> RECENTLY ****
>>
> I did kind of expect this reaction at some point :)
>
> e16.8 has been underway more than a year now, and the configuration file
> changes were one of the first things that happened, so the changes are
> only recent in the sense that e16.8 pre1 was released recently.
>
>> *** IT'S A BIG, AN AMASING MISTAKE THAT CRIPLE THE RESPECT YOU OUGHT
>> FOR THE
>> WORK YOU'VE DONE ****
>>
> The configuration file changes are undoubtedly annoying in a highly
> customized setup when you expect things to work entirely without changes
> for decades. However, I still think the changes are an improvement, and
> there has been a lot of until now exclusively positive feedback from
> users about this.
>
>> Please pardon me, but many Open Source projects are suffering the
>> same. It's not
>> your fault. You intended to improve E and I thank you for that. But
>> why change
>> things that are working for years ?
>>
> But it *is* my "fault" since I made the changes. There is no reason to
> blame Open Source in general :)
>
> Why did I change things?
>
> - To make the configuration simpler and more flexible.
> Compare ~/.enlightenment/...e_session-XXXXXX and ~/.e16/e_config--0.0.cfg.
> Compare /usr/share/enlightenment/config/keybindings.cfg and
> /usr/share/e16/config/bindings.cfg
> I think the new ones are quite a bit easier to comprehend, and the
> processing of these files is no longer obscured by the use of cpp.
> This may be of no concern to users who don't dig into these files, but
> quite a few e16 users actually do, as not every single configuration
> item is exposed via configuration dialogs.
>
> - To simplify code maintenance and implementation of new options/features.
> Previously it would require adding at least 20 lines of code to add a
> new configuration option, not including code to set/get the option via
> eesh.
> Now it takes two lines, and nothing in particular to expose it to eesh.
> Previously adding some action, like e.g. shade/unshade, would require
> separate code for borders/keybindings and for eesh commands.
> These have now been merged so that only one implementation is required.
>
> Users who just want e16 to work as it always has probably couldn't care
> less about these things. Ok, fine, stick with e16.7.
> As developer I found it increasingly annoying that it was non-trivial
> and tedious to add options/features. And I don't like to get annoyed ... :)
>
> /Kim
>
>
I appreciate your answers, and since I'm also a happy hack I can understand your
motivations ;).
I would like to take this discussion a bit higher and it can help E17 management
in the future...
E (mainly e16 ATW but e17 in a while) is a WM and as such must be manager like a
critical application. This means :
- it's evident but it's better said than not : This Program Is Designed With
Users In Mind, it's not your little toy, even if Raster as it's creator, you and
all contributors own the intellectual property, Open Sourcing it makes the
software the property of Users ;). That's what I mean when I said "many Open
Source projects are suffering"... That's the Great Concept, IMHO, of Richard
Stallman. You give the software and no one can say "I own it". The main focus
becomes : how to do things that benefits to the users.
- software releases should be made clear and as much as possible,
straightforward for users to download, build and install. But not the least: to
migrate without burden. This means, I think, a smart way to migrate from e16.7
to e16.8+ config files...
- configuration management should identify that there is a change in config file
syntax and/or structure. I.e. CVS should help us to signal these changes and
package management systems should map this. I can greatly help you and all the
Ecommunity. I've strong experience in SCM at work. Mainly in "industry class"
managed projects...
Yes, we agree that E is a critical application, that's a way for us to better
distinguish it from non-critical application. For example applications that
don't creates user annoyance when they don't work or applications that can
easyly be updated without notice to user.
A last example, and maybe you would better understand my way of thinking in
this:
an application that I don't consider critical and that you would upgrade
without the above concerns, is for example a computer script language
interpreter, well designed, but not as well as it's designer would like to...
and that's get update with a big change in the language syntax. What would think
users that have already written tons of scripts ?
(this example is half fictional - see Python's designers discussions...)
That's said in the battle between Light & Darkness, between Law and Chaos, we
don't want either side to win. We don't want to have config file syntax written
in stone for centuries, we don't want to have config file syntax to change
often. Maybe we could manage to get things smoother :D.
Best regards,
Michel
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