Ed- I of course realize that you were constraining you comments to those species that rely on coppice reproduction. Leaving fat old 'wolfy' hemlocks, while taking tall columnar hemlocks, for example, is likely to retain genes that favor multiple tops, and lateral branching preference. Both phenotypes are needed for the diversity that favors survival, but the latter is sought after by the logger/mill interests. -DonRB
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [ENTS] Re: old trees in the Inner Bluegrass Region of KentuckyDate: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:57:05 -0500 ENTS It is hard to lose genetic diversity in a species short of eliminating the entire population except for a handful of specimens or by selectively eliminating a specific genetic characteristic. Timbering is basically a non-selective process. The trees that sprout up after logging have pretty much the same genetic characteristics as the original population. They just don't have the same environment in which to grow. Trees or species that are adapted to extreme environments are the most vulnerable to genetic loss. These are populations that tend to concentrate genetic characteristics that are uncommon in the overall population and tend to preserve any advantageous mutations that would be lost among the larger genetic pool of the general population. The characteristics that are concentrated are still present in the general population and given enough time they could be potentially be concentrated again in an isolated population trying to adapt to the same extreme environment. Any true genetic variations limited to the isolated or extreme environment population would be lost with the effective elimination of the host population. Again simple cutting is non-selective, so it would require the population be removed and conditions altered so that the locality is not repopulated by the sprouts or offspring of the timbered or otherwise removed species. Ed "Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, And sorry I could not travel both. "Robert Frost (1874–1963). Mountain Interval. 1920. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan McEwan To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 9:54 AM Subject: [ENTS] Re: old trees in the Inner Bluegrass Region of Kentucky All: I would like to second Neil's main point- these trees may have passed through a bit of a genetic bottleneck due to human activities...but my gut tells me that we have only begun to discover the genetic flexibility trees. Plus, these trees were growing right on rocks, on a palisade, I would not infer much from their form. I bet you could grow "ideal" trees from one of their acorns. Than, again, if we think their form is a little off from the ideal, I think maybe that is an indication of our (non-biologically supportable) bias, not any real evaluation of the inferiority of the tree!!! This whole rat-race we are all involved in is ultimately about evolutionary fitness, and these trees have had about 200 extra years of acorn crops, so I reckon they are in much better shape than their fancy, straight-trunked, cousins who met the saw long-ago!! ryan -- Ryan McEwanThe University of Daytonhttp://udbiology.com/content.php?id=1664 On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 7:27 AM, neil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Beth, That is great - I love the look of chinquapin oak [or chinkapin,however you wish to spell it. I'd be careful on estimating tree agefrom external characteristics. The last tree on the list was largerthan most trees cored & yet ~ 1/4 of the potential ages. It lives nextto a trail and an ephemeral stream. I'd guess it has less competitionand more moisture availability yr round VS the other trees. BTW funny timing ENTS'ers: Floracliff and two other KY forests,including the 2000+ acre old-growth Blanton Forest, are featured inthe book "Wildlands Philanthropy: The Great American Tradition". Anice article was written up in the local paper Saturday -http://www.kentucky.com/601/story/592954.html - w/ accompanying shortarticles on the three KY forests. neil On Nov 16, 8:39 pm, Beth Koebel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> Neil,> > Those ages are great! I am glad that you sent photos also as I believe I have found my first chinquapin oaks at a park in Pacific, Missouri. I now have to reevalute the age estimate for those trees. > > I will send a seperate email about the park and Pacific, Missouri later as soon as I find the connector between my camera and my pc.> > Beth>> <BR_________________________________________________________________ See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org You are subscribed to the Google Groups "ENTSTrees" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
