Seriuously, lichens on sand? Amazing. And thanks all for pretty much writing my paper for me...
Please post lichen and tree root pix anyone. Jenny On Mar 13, 6:27 pm, Barry Caselli <[email protected]> wrote: > Lichens! I love lichens! We have tons of them here. They grow on practically > everything that doesn't move, along with moss too. The reindeer lichen and a > couple others grow on pure sand even. Yes, lichens are very cool! > > --- On Fri, 3/13/09, JennyNYC <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: JennyNYC <[email protected]> > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Roots? > To: "ENTSTrees" <[email protected]> > Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 11:56 AM > > Gary, > > Sorry to be completely unintellectual - but Lichens are SO COOL! > Trying to narrow down a paper topic for Botany class- one idea is gap > dynamics in the NYBG forest and the other is Lichens....I think I'm > going for the lichens. I have amazing lichen photos from Maine and > Arizona, mostly on rocks (because rocks are SO COOL too....! - I'll > try not to use this expression in paper...) > > Thanks for your info, > Jenny > > On Mar 12, 5:46 pm, [email protected] wrote:> One interesting hypothesis is > that early. Plants were an "inverted > > lichen", algae left the aquatic environment with the help of protofungi in > a symbiotic relationship. The fungi provided the protection from dissication > and also served as the interface between the macroscopic algae and soil. > Symbiotic (both ecto and endo symbionts) relationships are probably > underestimated in the functioning of terrestrial ecosystems. > > > > > Gary > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lee Frelich <[email protected]> > > > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:23:54 > > To: <[email protected]> > > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Roots? > > > Jenny: > > > Regarding mycorrhizae, its one of those interesting questions where the > > answer is yes and no. With very high soil fertility, trees can survive > > and grow without them, and in isolation, they can often grow without > > them. However, under most field conditions, and with the competition > > from numerous other trees, they are necessary for an individual tree to > > survive and grow, as well as for the function of the entire ecosystem. > > > Regarding nitrogen fixation--its another case where both answers are > > correct. Free living bacteria (Azotobacter and Clostridium, some > > blue-green algae, and others) fix a small amount of nitrogen in the > > soil. Rhizobium bacteria form a symbiotic relationship with roots, in a > > nodule, which can easily be seen if you pull up a clover plant. This > > occurs mainly in legumes (locust), but also in some other trees (via > > other genera of microorganisms) such as alder, and shrubs such as Myrica > > (sweet gale), and Shepherdia (buffaloberry). The presence of nitrogen > > fixing plant species can fertilize the soils, thereby increasing the > > growth of tree species that cannot form nitrogen fixing nodules. > > > Whether the nodule forming microorganisms are considered part of the > > tree depends on your point of view. They are halfway between ancient > > microorganisms such as certain algae and bacteria that have become > > chloroplasts in leaves, and mitochondria in cells of plants and animals > > (which are clearly part of the organisms, and cannot live by > > themselves), and microorganisms that cannot form a symbiotic > > relationships with plants at all. Its a continuum, and where you make a > > distincion along that continuum depends on the individual > > > Lee > > > JennyNYC wrote: > > > Lee, et. al., > > > > I would love to see one of these "rhizotrons". Fascinating. > > > > I have questions if anyone can help me out: > > > > 1. Are mycorrizae absolutely essential for young tree roots to grow > > > and do trees have mycorrizae associations throughout their lives? > > > > 2. I'm confused about the exact relationship between the bacteria > in > > > the soil that fix nitrogen and the tree root itself. I know this > is > > > a broad and vague question....just wondering it those bacteria are > > > considered part of the tree organism? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jenny > > > > On Mar 12, 8:54 am, Lee Frelich <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Ed et al.: > > > >> We usually measure root biomass by taking soil cores (usually 2-4 > inches > > >> in dimeter, from 1-3 feet deep, depending on the purpose of the > study), > > >> and separating the roots so they can be dried and weighed. By > taking a > > >> number of such samples, we can estimate the biomass of roots per > acre in > > >> the forest. Roots are also studied in rhizotrons (underground > rooms with > > >> large windows all around). One can observe the root growth > against the > > >> windows, study how earthworms move, and how the soil zonation > changes > > >> over time, etc. The University of Michigan Biological Station and > > >> Michigan Tech have rhizotrons that I have visited. There are > also mini > > >> rhizotrons that can be placed throughout the forest. > > > >> Of course, these do not give you an estimate of the roots of one > tree. > > >> I have seen that done by blasting away the soil with high > pressure > > >> hoses, so that the root system can be mapped and measured. This > is done > > >> in a stand that is planned to be clearcut, or perhaps a few trees > in an > > >> experimental forest, and it only works in ecosystems with shallow > soils > > >> and/or rooting depths. > > > >> Lee > > > >> Edward Frank wrote: > > > >>> Jenny > > > >>> I am sure if there was some practical and non-destructive > method of > > >>> measuring the roots underground, we would give it a try. > > Ground Penetrating > > > >>> Radar is still a little expensive at the moment. > > > >>> Ed > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>> From: "Jennynyc" <[email protected]> > > >>> To: "ENTSTrees" <[email protected]> > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:06 PM > > >>> Subject: [ENTS] Re: Roots? > > > >>> Russ, > > > >>> Thanks for letting me know about this. > > > >>> Jenny > > > >>> On Mar 11, 2:27 pm, [email protected] wrote: > > > >>>> Jen: > > > >>>> No. That type of work is usually done by researchers > looking for a > > >>>> specific > > >>>> piece of information about a tree or group of trees. > > > >>>> Russ > > >>>> **************Need a job? 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