Jenny, 

      With respect to your question about tulip trees  (also called tuliptree , 
tulip poplar , yellow poplar, and canoe wood ) compared to white pines, I'll 
present some insights based on general observations and a heck of a lot of tree 
measurements. I'll leave a more precise explanation of the growth requirements 
to silviculturists and foresters who have experience with the species, except 
to say that pines do best in silt-sandy soils and tuliptrees do best in rich 
soils. So they don't always inhabit the same locations, although many sites in 
the Northeast might have both, with one better suited to a particular site.   
       In terms of rapid growth, they are good competitors. The white pine is 
our tallest native eastern tree species and the tulip poplar is our second, 
i.e.  t hey aren't just fast growers, but reach greater absolute heights than 
any other eastern species. Both species have been measured to over 180 feet 
(ENTS measurements) in the East. Our tallest white pine, the Boogerman Pine  in 
the Smokies is almost 189 feet in height and our tallest tulip poplar, also in 
the Smokies,  is almost 182 feet. But despite t he slight  height advantage of 
the white pine, t ulip trees reach much greater sizes than white pines. I won't 
inundate you with numbers, but the ratio of maximum tulip tree volume to 
maximum white pine volume is between 3 and  4 to 1. 
        T his general information  about volumes cannot be applied across the 
geographical range of t he species. In central New England, the white pine will 
out compete the tulip poplar. In northern New England, forget it. The tulip 
trees is beyond its range limits. It will grow in people's yards, but is not a 
forest competitor. So Maine is not tulip tree country. 
         Farther south, (southern New Jersey, Pennsylvania, etc.) the tulip 
tree comes into its own. I n places like the coves of the southern Appalachians 
of North and South Carolina, Tennessee, and northern Georgia, it  reseeds old 
fields that are  left to return to forest. Coves can be dominated by this 
single species. 
        G oing westward, the role of tulip tree is less clear to me and in the 
central Mid-west, the white pine is out of its element. However, in the 
northern Mid-west, the species reaches its greatest historical abundance. While 
its range overlaps that of the tulip tree, I don't know how well they compete 
with one another. Maybe Lee Frelich can shed some light on the subject. 
However, I suspect they occupy different habitats.    
        On my just ended trip west, I encountered the tulip tree in Illinois, 
Indiana, and Ohio in 3 of the 4 old growth stands I visited in those states. If 
I add in a site from last year, I saw tulip tree o n 4 of 5 old growth sites. 
In Beall Woods, Illinois, the tulip tree was the tallest species growing among 
the two dozen or so species I saw. At 141.5 feet tall, t he Beth Koebel Tulip 
Tree is Beall Woods's tallest tree. In Pioneer Mothers Memorial Forest and 
Nature Preserve in southern Indiana, the tulip tree is the tallest species, 
except for a lone sycamore. Tulips there get into the low 130s. In Davey Woods 
of southwestern Ohio, the tulip tree is lord of the forest. I measuredthem to 
144.5 feet and probably didn't get the top of the tree. Several are in the 135 
to 145-foot height class. There are no white pines in those forests. It isn't 
white pine country. 
     Here in western Mass, tulips occup rich sunny sites and reach to almost 
140 feet. White pines are widely distributed and reach to 169 feet with room 
left for a few to push 170 feet. The pines reach greater girths and volumes 
when in stands. Tulips in mixed stands tend to be slender.  I expect that in 
colonial times, with more open land, there were a few more of them, but 
Massachusetts is definitely the transition zone for the species. 
     In adjacent New York, tulips make it up the Hudson River Valley and 
eastward to the foothills of the Taconics. They peter out near the south end of 
Lake Champlain. They will not compete with the great whites at that latitude. 
However, in the lower Hudson River Valley, tulip trees can reach great size. 
We've measured several to over 150 feet in height and between 11 and 14 feet in 
girth on the old Vanderbilt Estate in Hyde Park. There are younger tulips on 
Roosevelts estate, but they're nothing special. 
     Near Syracuse is a place called Green Lake State Park. It has a stand of 
tulip trees, the explanation for which, I do not have. They reach to 144 feet, 
but have crowns that look weather beaten. My guess is that the climate does not 
favor the species in terms of growing them as a timber crop although their fast 
growth rates allows them to be the tallest hardwood in the area. 
     West Virginia is a p lace that grows huge tulip trees and also grows nice 
white pine. In the Mountaineer State. the tulips will easily outgrow white 
pines. Oops, better consult with Russ Richardson on that. Russ? 
    Well where does all this rambling lead in terms of the questions you posed? 
In southern New England, tulips are an alterntive to white pine for the right 
kinds of soils. At the latitude of central Massachusetts, the advantage has 
shifted to the white pine. Farther north, the t ulips are out except as 
ornamentals. 
     My friend Professor Gary Beluzo may have some observations to make of his 
own. Gary? 

Bob    
   
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JennyNYC" <[email protected]> 
To: "ENTSTrees" <[email protected]> 
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 7:28:29 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: [ENTS] Tulip Tree question 


ENTS, 

So many grand tulip trees in the northeast (and probably elsewhere). I 
know that this is an early succession species and that it is a 
relatively fast grower (would you compare it to the growth rate of an 
eastern white pine?), but it couldn't have germinated in all those 
places on its own could it? Seems that it would be a great tree to 
plant for reforestation of parks/non-timber land, so it would have 
been actively planted as well. And from what I've observed, once they 
are established they seem to propagate pretty well. 

Jenny 


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