Bob: We continue to have a severe drought in the Minneapolis area, and a lesser drought in much of the rest of central and northern Minnesota (southern MN has had excessive amounts of rain). Trees here look like they should--under a lot of stress after a significant drought each summer for the last 5 years. Herbaceous plants on the forest floor have been lying flat on the ground for the last month--there is not enough water for turgor pressure to make them stand up. Temperatures have gone from much colder than average to much warmer than average about every two weeks--the only constant is no rain. I wonder when the flood will come--our droughts always end in a spectacular downpour where we get 2 or 3 months worth of rain in a day.
Lee [email protected] wrote: > > Lee, > > > > Ah ha! Now I know why Minnesota and the Porkies are better and > why I like them so much. You folks up there in the northland are part > of the real North America. We easterners all drifted in from Africa, > and there abouts, latching on to the real North America. Guess we're > kind of imposters. > > Joking aside, how has the summer gone in Minnesota? While Monica > and I were out west, I'm told that it rained here nearly every day. We > returned to a forest that appears very lush. My favorite trees have > grown a lot - which reminds me, I've got to get cracking and remeasure > the ENTS grove. Your tree will be a good indicator of overall growth. > It is a relatively young tree in a pretty good location. It should > have a healthy growth candle on it. > > I'm thinking of putting more time into the ENTS grove and > redoing the entire naming process. The mainstays will remain the > mainstays, but we've got people who deserve recognition for long term > service to the forest and environment. I could use a list from the > rest of you. I feel a little artificial going around pronouncing that > this tree is the so-and-so tree. Yes, it is all in good fun, but there > is a serious side to it also. > > > > Bob > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lee Frelich" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 8:35:13 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Catskills > > > Bob: > > So is northern MN and the Porkies in Upper Michigan (although in the > Porkies the shield is buried under younger rocks and sediments in some > areas). The older shield rocks are at the surface in most of the > Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness. I will be taking a group of > Fulbright Scholars from Norway on a hike on the Canadian Shield near Ely > this weekend. > > Lee > > [email protected] wrote: > > > > Don, > > > > > > > > Yes, and thanks. The Adirondacks are also part of the Canadian Shield > > - I think. Ed? > > > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "DON BERTOLETTE" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:34:01 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Catskills > > > > Bob- > > Were you able to take a look at the Photobucket slideshow? There are > > some images that include some Canadian Shield exposures... > > -don > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:29:29 +0000 > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Catskills > > > > Don, > > > > It is apparent that Lee has moved the envelope on us. We have to go > > back to the drawing board and construct more comparison categories. > > Oh, the weight of the responsibility! > > > > Bob > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "DON BERTOLETTE" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 5:11:13 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Catskills > > > > Bob/Lee- > > While I suppose Kansas' plains are that of deposition, had it been > > mountains worn down, it would have likely one, hands down...it's said, > > by layfolk and geologists alike that it IS flatter than a pancake! > > With a mid-afternoon epiphany, I am thinking that I could be in the > > old-growthest of mountains right here in Yellowknife...atop the > > Canadian Shield... > > -Don > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:00:26 +0000 > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Catskills > > > > Lee, > > > > You have presented me with a way to think about mountains, young > > and old, andtheir climates that I could have never achieved on my own. > > Should I conclude that the most pleasing mountains of all are those > > that have eroded to flat plains - the ultimate old growth mountain > > state? Just wondering. > > > > Bob > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lee Frelich" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:32:18 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Catskills > > > > > > Bob: > > > > When I saw your pictures of the Catskills, I thought, there are > > mountains with real character and elegant rounded shapes resulting from > > a few hundred million years of graceful aging. They have not quite > > reached the dignified state of the Porcupine Mountains in Michigan and > > Sawtooth Mountains in Minnesota, that used to rival the Himalayas, but > > have undergone a billion years of erosion to end up being about 1500 > > feet higher than their base, but the Catskills are almost there. > > Old-growth mountains such as the Porkies have a lot of character, and > > they don't block the view of the sky (and approaching tornadoes) like > > juvenile mountains such as the Rockies. Besides that, in the northern > > Midwest we can get 20 feet of snow in the winter and Siberian > > temperatures without resorting to excessive elevation. > > > > Lee > > > > PS--speaking of approaching tornadoes, the Kandiyohi Elm forest in > > Minnesota narrowly escaped being leveled by a tornado AGAIN on > Tuesday. > > They sure get a lot of tornadoes west of Minneapolis. No wonder the > > first settlers out there lived in dugout houses with sod roofs. > > > > > > [email protected] wrote: > > > > > > Robert, > > > > > > > > > > > > Glad you enjoyed the photos. There will be more as I discipline > > > myself to take my camera on tree and mountain ventures. In the past I > > > relied on friends to do what I should have also been doing. I'm > > > finally getting my act together. I have a lot of photographic > > > documentation to catch up on. > > > > > > With respect to vertical relief of mountains, over the years > > > I've done dozens of analyses on East versus West, mountain range > > > versus mountain range, and peak versus peak. I am as big of a nut on > > > mountains as trees. I would agree that the East does has some big > > > climbs that can go unappreciated by westerners. The west side of the > > > Great Smokies in eastern Tennesse and the White Mountains in New > > > Hampshire have the biggest climbs in terms of vertical relief. > > > They are followed by the isolated summit points of Mount Kathadin in > > > Maine and Giant Mountain in the Adirondacks. The Blacks and Balsams of > > > North Carolina and Adiriondack High Peaks come next. There are a few > > > large elevation gains (3,000 feet) in the Green Mountains and Taconics > > > of Vermont. The Blue Ridge of North Carolina, Virgina, and Georgia, > > > the Greens and Taconics in Vermont, the Catskills of New York, and > > > some of the other Maine Appalachians form a large area of mountains > > > where vertical relief can reach 3,000 feet and slightly more in the > > > case of the highest peaks. The Burroughs range in the Catskills comes > > > to mind. But these latter mountain regions are roughly comparable. To > > > be fair, we'd also need to include some areas in West Virginia, but > > > I'm less familiar with West Virginia's 'tall' peaks. > > > > > > The lack of understanding and appreciation for eastern summits > > > often stems from invalid comparisons. But, this occurs for western > > > summits as well. Trails to the tops of well known summits can begin > > > half way up the mountain, allowing a hiker or climber to claim that > > > he/she climbed the mountain when he/she climbed half the mountain - or > > > less. Establishing the base of a mountain at the bottom of the final > > > rise is a ridiculous practice of some hikers and writers - very, very > > > misleading. The Peak Baggers have devised a system of peak by peak > > > comparison for vertical relief. They are the reaal experts. > > > > > > Different methods of comparison can be applied to judge the > > > vertical relief of mountains. For me, I like to use the visual > > > impressiveness of a mountain or mountain range as seen from different > > > distances. I especially enjoy viewing the vertical relief that a > > > mountain or range attains from the surrounding lowlands so that I see > > > the full vertical sweep of the peaks. However, lots of foot hills > > > stretched over a long horizontal distance can reduce the visual > > > impressiveness of a range. Conversely, some foothills can set the > > > stage, so to speak, for the bigger peaks beyond. > > > > > > The western side of the Great Smokies rise from foothills that > > > are between 1,500 and 2,000 feet above sea level. Spots along the > > > water courses are even lower. The tops of the Smokies reach to a > > > maximum height of 6,643 feet at Clingman's Dome. Mt. Guyot is second > > > at 6,621 feet. Mt Leconte is third at 6,593 feet. These peaks and > > > other 6,000-footers along the crest of the Smokies rise between 4,500 > > > and 5,000 feet above the basal foothills. They are western-sized > > > mountains. The highest peaks of the Whites in New Hampshire provide > > > almost as much relief and are generally steeper sided, giving the > > > appearance of being higher. > > > > > > The high peaks of the Rockies generally rise from 4,000 to 7,000 > > > feet above their basal lowlands. In terms of vertical relief as seen > > > at a distance, the Front Range in Colorado, the Bighorns in Wyoming, > > > and the Wasatch in Utah have impressive base to summit rises, with > > > about a thousand foot difference between each, i.e. 9,000 feet for the > > > Front Range's highest summits, 8,000 feet for the Bighorn high > > > summits, and 7,000 for the Wasatch. The Tetons in Wyoming and the > > > Sangre de Cristo, La Platas, San Juans, and Sawatch in Colorado are > > > more more on the order of 6,000 to 6,500 feet. > > > > > > In judging impressiveness, the Tetons and Sangres haved no > > > foothills. They are really 'in your face' mountains and can through > > > you off in judging what you have to climb. The eye and brain do a lot > > > of work to bring the proportions together and make them > understandable. > > > > > > As Don Bertolette has pointed out in his examples, the peaks of > > > California and the volcanoes of the Pacific NW go off the charts in > > > terms of vertical relief. San Jacinto in southern California rises > > > very abruptly 10,800 feet above the desert floor. When I spent several > > > months at March AFB in 1966, I viisted those huge mountains. The > > > enormous vertical relief initially confused me until I realized how > > > much mountain I was looking at and got my brain to assess the > > > proportions better. > > > > > > Of course, visual appeal of mountains is in the eyes of the > > > beholder. A beautifully contoured mountain rising abruptly 2,000 feet > > > above its base can be as attractive as much larger mountains. I like > > > them all. > > > > > > BTW, congrats on the movie deal. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "JamesRobertSmith" <[email protected]> > > > To: "ENTSTrees" <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:22:18 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > > > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Catskills > > > > > > > > > Absolutely gorgeous photos! > > > > > > I love our eastern peaks. I meet up with a lot of hikers from out west > > > that I call "mountain snobs". They don't consider our mountains to be > > > anything other than hills. I point out to them that the 13K-foot peak > > > they climbed only has 2500 feet of relief, but this matters not at all > > > to them. I've stood on many mountains in Virginia that have as much > > > vertical relief as Half Dome in Yosemite. But they wouldn't admit that > > > those Virgina summits are mountains. > > > > > > Alas. > > > > > > At any rate, those are great photos. One of these days I hope to hike > > > in the Catskills, too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you. > > <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage. Get it on > > your BlackBerry or iPhone. > > > <http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
