Russ,
Yes, I've measured the best of what Jay has including his two grandfather pines. They are very large. Both around 12 feet in circumference. None of Jay's pines are exceptionally tall. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:03:20 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [ENTS] Re: Back to Bob about Wednesday Mike/Bob: Have you ever been to Hall Tavern Farm in Charelmont owned by Jay Healy? There are some phenomenal white pine including some that were prunded extremely high during the depression and a couple of exceptionally large diameter and tall white pine trees that might be some of the best outside MTSF. Russ -----Original Message----- From: Mike Leonard <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2009 4:21 pm Subject: [ENTS] Re: Back to Bob about Wednesday Bob, I can ’ t think in terms of cubic feet. S ince I ’ ve always dealt in board footage, cubic foot measurements are alien to me and therefore meaningless. I read that the ratio of board feet to cubic feet ranges from 5: 1 to 6:1 depending I guess on which log rule is used and form class. I can ’ t believe th e waste is as high as 50% what with the newer bandsaws which reduces saw kerf as compared with the old circular saws. Yes you will have a lot of waste squaring off a cylinder as well as waste from the saw kerf but 50%? Mill workers have told me there is a built in overrun of 15% on the ¼ ’ International log rule. I remember watching Gerry Lashway of Lashway Lumber in Williams burg saw up logs at his mill. There was a computer in his box which showed him how best to saw e ach log to maximize profit and minimize waste. I compared that with t he old hand set circular saw that old man Sisco used to use at his mill in Hubbardston (1950 ’ s vintage) and it was quite the difference. Bill Sisco Sr. was from the old school. Whenever I asked him how the tally went he always said “ I come up just a little bit short ” . Right! Volume is important but grading logs i s usually far more important in the forest products industry . I remember watching a log scaler grade logs and I asked him how he could grade the logs if he wasn ’ t rolling them so he could look at all 4 sides. He told me it wasn ’ t easy! Yeah it ’ s not easy unless you ’ ve got X-Ray vision! He could have saved some time if he just=2 0went back to office and wrote up some fictitious scale slips because that ’ s what he was doing anyway. You know it ’ s the same old story: logger screws the landowner and the mill screws the logger. It will be interesting to see those big pines and wonder what makes that site so superior for growing white pine? In addition, Mohawk State Forest is pretty much out of the hurricane belt so that allows for a longer life span than other areas that are frequented more often by powerful windstorms. The other big factor with white pine is the white pine weevil. Why do some areas grow the crappiest multi - forked =2 0pine while others grow nice straight beauties? Is it all related to past land use history, competition early in their life cycl e , or something else? Are weevil populations denser in some areas than others for whatever reason? I n my opinion, the white pine weevil is the biggest hindrance to forest productivity in the northeast (besides high-grading of course). Yes if we grow white pine i n partial shade early in its life we can discourage the weevil while sacrificing some growth . But i f we could find a way to eliminate the weevil, we could get some phenomenal production. Or maybe a forest geneticist could someday breed a weevi l resistant white pine. Mike -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected] ] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [ENTS] Re: Back to Mike Leonard about Wednesday Mike, There are a number of white pines in MTSF that we'll see on Wednesday that we in ENTS have modeled to between 400 and 600 cubic feet of trunk volume. Additionally, there are 5 pines in Mohawk in the 700+ cubic feet class. I don't have a good handle on how total trunk volume can be converted to board feet. However, I assume that a 600-cube pine that theoretically yields 7,200 board feet will actually yield about 3,600 in lumber - a 50% wastage factor. I think Russ gave me s o me realistic factors in the past, but I've forgotten what he said. I'm curious as to what you will see in the largest trees. BTW, the single largest pine we'll visit is the Tecumseh Tree in the Elders Grove. Its dimensions are: DBH=45 inches, height = 163 . 3 feet, and average crown spread approximately 45 feet, maybe a little more. I once asked Karl Davies how many board feet he thought20was in the Tecumseh Pine. To the eye, it didn't look much different then than now. He said he thought about 5,000 board feet. If we take the ENTS modeled volume of 779 cubic feet of trunk volume and run it through the calculation 779 x 12 x 0.5 = 4,674, that isn't far off Karl's estimate of 5,000. I wish I'd asked him what the waste factor he was assuming. By way of com parison, the largest pine we've modeled in Massachusetts is the Grandfather Tree in Monroe State Forest. Will Blozan climbed and modeled the tree to 967 cubic feet. The Ice Glen pine, also climbed and modeled by Will, is second with 933 cubes. I presume t h at a typical pine grown for lumber is between 100 and 120 feet in height and around 2 feet in diameter. If the tree is under 100 years old, its form factor is likely to be between 0.33 and 0.36. Taking a pine that is 110 feet in height and 2 feet in diame t er and assuming a form factor of 0.35, the expected trunk volume calculates to 120 cubic feet. Tecumseh is 6.5 times that volume. No small tree. I think you'll enjoy seeing it. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Leonard" < [email protected] > To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 2:01:00 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [ENTS] Re: Back to Mike Leonard about Wednesday Bob, Joe; OK we ’ ll see you guys at the Charlemont Inn for breakfast this Wed. at 8:30. How big i s the big Algonquin tree? 2,000 board feet? Wow we could fill half a log truck with that! OK I promise not to mark that tree! It will be interesting to look at some of these monster pines and think hey we should be growing more of these! Mike --~--~---- -----~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to entstrees+ u [email protected] -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
