Bob,

Okay,  tree pride and ENTS spirit suggest that we need T-Shirts,  
banners, pins, and rings. Anyone want to initiate an ad hoc committee?

Gary

On Nov 15, 2009, at 3:54 PM, [email protected] wrote:

> Gary, Ed, Paul, Tim, Jack, et al,
>
>       It is tempting to Ents to read about giant trees growing in the  
> past, the likes of which we don't see today. There is a romantic  
> element in thinking nostalgically about the reported big trees of  
> yesteryear. Our problem is that the sources of information about  
> those trees, which we must rely on, are not only uncorroborated, but  
> inconsistent with anything remotely close to what we see today. Past  
> accounts are often newspaper stories or their equivalent. How can we  
> put in credence in those loose accounts when we can't even trust  
> documents like the National Register of Big Trees. Over the years  
> that highly respected, and often quoted, document has had egregious  
> errors in it. American Forests has been informed about many of the  
> errors and allowed them to remain for fear of alienating  
> contributors to the register.
>
>       At one time or another, virtually all of the ENTS super measurers  
> have been witness to extremely mis-measured trees reported by  
> surface-wise credible sources. I am reminded of a white pine in  
> Shelburne, MA that was reported to Jack Sobon and myself some years  
> ago. We were told it was 175 feet tall as reported by a service  
> forester of DCR. You'd think an experienced field forester could  
> take one quick look at a white pine and distinguish it from a merely  
> tall pine. You'd think. Well, it didn't happen.
>
>       Measurement errors and misjudgments of height are constantly being  
> promulgated from otherwise reputable sources. This is why ENTS does  
> not except tree height measurements coming from non-ENTS sources.  
> So, if we're wary of even the National Register, why would we give a  
> past newspaper account of a highly unlikely measurement much  
> credibility? Because it is the fun to think of the possibility. I  
> fall prey to the temptation too. But we must be on guard if we're to  
> be the arbiter of credible big tree reports. To reinforce this  
> point, Andrew Joslin has come face to face with one of those mis- 
> measured trees from an otherwise credible source. A big silver maple  
> grows on the grounds of Harvard's Arnold Arboretum. It is stated to  
> be 134 feet tall, if I remember correctly. The claims is at least  
> 130 feet. I think Andrew measured it to 108. However, even though he  
> exercised the highest level of diplomacy in informing them of the  
> closer measurement, Andrew failed to get Arnold Arboretum to take a  
> second look at their tree. Personal prides are obviously involved.  
> However, people in the future may read of the 130+ foot silver maple  
> that grew on the grounds of the prestigious  Arnold Arboretum. I  
> suspect that they would find it illogical to challenge the report.  
> After all, if the Arboretum staff can't measure trees accurately,  
> who can? Do we have news for them?
>
>       This all brings me to a final point. As ENTS tree measuring methods  
> gain wider acceptance, it is incumbent on us to strengthen our  
> resolve never to back off our resolve to seek ever more accurate  
> measurements. It is what we do and it is what we should be proud of.  
> But have said this, it is still loads of fun to speculate about  
> great trees of the past and try to determine yesteryears maximums.  
> Now have you heard about that 200-foot dogwood that once  
> grew ..................
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edward Frank" <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:34:04 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada  
> Eastern
> Subject: Re: [ENTS] A Large Tree article in 1849
>
> Gary,
>
> Even if the tree were leaning severely, say at 60 degrees, the  
> height would still be 260 feet with a length of 300.  I doubt that a  
> tree that tall could lean that much and still be stable - the top  
> would be 150 feet from the center of the base.
>
> Ed
>
>
> Check out my new Blog:  http://nature-web-network.blogspot.com/ (and  
> click on some of the ads)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gary A Beluzo
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [ENTS] A Large Tree article in 1849
>
> Ed,
>
> That is the sentence that cued me.  Again, even if the LENGTH of one  
> route to the branch tops is 300 feet, that would be far less than  
> the HEIGHT.
>
> Gary
>
> On Nov 15, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Edward Frank <[email protected]>  
> wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> The problem isn't with the number of logs taken out of the tree,   
> The article says:
>
> A Large Tree. --- Mr. D. E. Hawks, of Charlemont, cut a Pine tree a  
> short time since, of the following dimensions.  It was 7 feet  
> through 10 feet from the stump, and 5 feet through 50 feet from the  
> stump.  Twenty-two logs were taken from the tree, the average length  
> of which were 12 feet.  Fourteen feet of the tree were spoiled in f 
> alling.  The extreme length of the tree      from the stump to the t 
> op twigs was 300 feet! ---- Greenfield Gazette.
>
> Ed
>
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> To unsubscribe send email to [email protected]
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> Send email to [email protected]
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