There are dangers in everything, I guess Orn. It makes sense to me to point out what many people seem to expect from epistemology (grounding) has already missed the bus. And no harm in letting them wait to see the other ones! I once asked an organisational aestheticist who had just spent a long time explaining that hypertext was a visual medium how he might explain that to my blind friend. Many of the crass meditative-introspective 'techniques' are advertised in the worst of the neurosis of self - you know what I mean, they are all over the place and have one travelling multi-dimensionally.
On Jul 16, 8:03 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > The Nazis did deal with mysticism. True. And, their ‘Nazi emblem’ (if > one wishes to follow this addition to the topic) was appropriated from > the Bonpa religion, a precursor of Tibetan Buddhism and a sect that > remains today. I have met some from Italy who practiced it and did not > find the Mussolini connection that one finds with Evola. > > Yes Neil, I almost didn’t post due to the esoteric nature of the topic > and what obviously appears to be a desire to not ‘testify’. After > fairly careful consideration, I posted anyway. > > I empathize with the goal(s) of reducing neurosis although with > possible different origins and experience. The dogma oft associated > with such psychological pursuits, mostly formed through early cathexis > (bestzung to Siggy) seldom reaps clarity. At the very least, it is not > a universal other than in the sense of recognition of deception and > the lack of integrity. Regardless, sociologically, the telos is the > recognition of our oneness. > > On Jul 16, 10:33 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > The word 'ascesi' - from 'askésis', 'to train' - originally meant only > > 'training' and, in the Roman sense, 'discipline'. The corresponding > > Indo-Aryan is 'tapas' ('tapa' or 'tapo' in Pâli) and means the same > > except that, because of the root, 'tap', which means 'to be hot' or > > 'to glow', it also contains the idea of an intensive concentration, of > > glowing, almost of fire. > > > With the development of Western civilisation, however, the word > > 'ascesis' has, as is well known, taken on a particular meaning which > > differs from the original. Not only it has assumed an exclusively > > religious sense, but, because of the general tone of the faith which > > has come to predominate among Western peoples, asceticism has become > > connected to ideas of mortification of the flesh and of painful > > renunciation of the world : thus, it has come to indicate the path > > that this faith thinks the most suitable for 'salvation', and the > > reconciliation of the creature, corrupted by original sin, with his > > Creator. As early as the beginnings of Christianity the word 'ascesis' > > was applied to those who practised exercises of mortification such as > > auto-flagellation. > > > Asceticism in this sense became the object of clear aversion with the > > growth of specifically modern civilisation. If even Luther, with the > > resentment of one who was unable to understand or to tolerate monastic > > discipline, disowned the necessity, the value, and the usefulness of > > any ascesis, to oppose to it an exaltation of pure faith, then > > humanism, immanentism, and the new cult of life were brought from > > their standpoint to bring discredit and scorn upon asceticism, which > > those tendencies associated more or less with 'medieval obscurantism' > > and with the aberrations of 'historically outdated ages'. And when > > asceticism was not explained away purely and simply as a pathological > > manifestation, a transposed form of auto-sadism, all sorts of > > incompatibilities and oppositions to 'our way of life' were claimed > > for it. The best known and the oldest of these is the antithesis > > supposed to exist between the ascetic, renouncing, static East, > > hostile to the world, and the active, assertive, heroic and creative > > Western civilisation. > > > The above came recommended on a page with the Nazi emblem on it Chaz. > > One assumes this is not where our friend finds his ascesis! One can > > find strange light in meditation (literally) and a 'glow' that reminds > > me of magic as some African friends once demonstrated for me. Orn > > almost pleads the 5th - but that's my friend's business. In more > > sociological terms, there is civic humanism and ascecitism from the > > east and Greeks. My own take concerns neurosis and finding ways to > > move society away from it. My studies concern such examples as police > > lying as a case of socially enforced neurotic behaviour. > > > On Jul 10, 1:02 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > We don’t need my words. Others have set the grounds: > > > Name, Definition, Resemblance, True Opinion and the Fifth. > > > > I use additional elements and guideposts in an esoteric practice…but > > > this is all of little importance and not actually for discussion nor > > > deconstruction. > > > > No doubt you know at least some of the steps…like when focusing your > > > attention upon something…knowing what it is primarily by what is > > > called… often followed by additional concentration upon more elements > > > involved…like the terms defining what is being addressed. What follows > > > involves witnessing the process etc. > > > > Thanks for asking anyway. > > > > On Jul 9, 3:02 pm, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > So, in your own words what exactly is the process of ascesis? > > > > > On Jul 9, 3:01 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > “Isn't having stages a contradiction of henology?” – Chaz > > > > > > Perhaps…although I was addressing the actual process of ascesis… > > > > > something I’ve been working with for quite a while now. In fact, I’ve > > > > > been working many knowledge school methods. Being interested in mind, > > > > > I practice methods so I can know what is what…an actual first hand > > > > > scientific study. > > > > > > Theosis is possible as Plotinus found out. When it comes to > > > > > ‘contradiction’, in any ultimate and/or integral sense, there is no > > > > > contradiction that I can find. > > > > > > For those who have devoured Plotinus, Neil and/or Wikipedia one finds > > > > > henology is“…a "metaphysics of radical transcendence" that extends > > > > > beyond being and intellection.[2] It can be contrasted with ontology, > > > > > as ontology is "an account of being" whereas henology is an "account > > > > > of unity."” > > > > > > These words above only approach the first 3 aspects of ascesis. This > > > > > isn’t in contradiction with the process of ascesis though…it is merely > > > > > a part of the whole…you know, a distinction about the One and the > > > > > many. Long ago I would have been afraid to even consider the notion > > > > > let alone the experience of “radical transcendence” except perhaps at > > > > > arm’s length through academics. > > > > > > For an internet heuristic re: Plotinus, > > > > > see:http://www.livius.org/pi-pm/plotinus/plotinus.htmlhttp://www.philosop... > > > > > > “And what has this got to do with our discussion?” - Chaz > > > > > > Little except by association…particularly with Neil’s offering me as > > > > > being worth a month of study. Also, the thread does start out having > > > > > to do with epistemology…Kant’s in particular. I’ve been looking at the > > > > > nature and scope of knowledge for a while now. I don’t claim to be > > > > > well read nor to be able to recall let alone present or to having > > > > > assimilated most philosophers; however, I have been interested in > > > > > firsthand experience(s). As an aside, the different presentation > > > > > levels found in this group are quite vast. Some I can make no sense of > > > > > at all. > > > > > > Further, in an admittedly troll-like maneuver, I posted that which I > > > > > had guessed would evoke a response. Also, I’ve had some very recent > > > > > (last night) experiences in this vein. > > > > > > Years ago I ran across Eck online and even one person who I talked > > > > > with quite a bit. She actually seemed coherent and at worst well > > > > > versed. I haven’t studied the method more than a cursorily glance. > > > > > Through Ichazo and his School, I’ve found plenty to help me go beyond > > > > > where I find myself at any one moment. Even before I met Oscar, I knew > > > > > that there was much more than words and concepts. > > > > > > On Jul 8, 4:59 pm, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Isn't having stages a contradiction of henology? > > > > > > > And what has this got to do with our discussion? > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 10:25 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > For any serious student of mind, one ultimately arrives at > > > > > > > henology. > > > > > > > The 5 stages of ascesis provide one basic map. The first 3 are > > > > > > > involved with words. The 4th on ‘True Opinion’. The 5th is the > > > > > > > 5th. > > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 9:12 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I had an external trying to fail my best student for swearing > > > > > > > > last > > > > > > > > year. I've been asked to do some work on a PhD programme at a > > > > > > > > US > > > > > > > > university (better not mention it by name in case I have to > > > > > > > > take the > > > > > > > > work). Compared with what you got at Sussex Chaz, it's baby > > > > > > > > play! > > > > > > > > And clapped-out nonsense equating to the personal development > > > > > > > > drivel > > > > > > > > all over undergrads like a rash at the moment. I'm old enough > > > > > > > > now > > > > > > > > that I mat have inaugurated the angle, though in my version I'd > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > accepted stuff like 'spending a month with Orn' or going > > > > > > > > Bohemian or a > > > > > > > > few weeks with some nuclear scientists or biologists (etc.) - > > > > > > > > now it's > > > > > > > > all dreadful. > > > > > > > > Pleasing Sussex didn't neuter you mate. > > > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 8:38 am, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 7, 11:12 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm, thanks for the cautionary tale Chaz! Now and then I > > > > > > > > > > contemplate > > > > > > > > > > returning to some academy or another…and on the rare > > > > > > > > > > occasion with > > > > > > > > > > more idealistic considerations than to merely glean a > > > > > > > > > > ‘practical’ bit > > > > > > > > > > of credentialing. I too greatly appreciate your sharing and > > > > > > > > > > recent > > > > > > > > > > path…’tis one due to great personal ignorance I wish I had > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > tenacity and means to follow. > > > > > > > > > > > By > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Epistemology" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en.
