Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Should I be interested in buying an Ercoupe, Forney, Alon, etc.

[dennis spiegel]

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Hey there Dan And All.Cross country is FUN in a coupe Syd and I and Brad (Syd's  cousin) flew from Wausau Wi and Chicago Il respectively to Daytona Beach Fl last year round trip  27 hours due to crap weather enroute low ceilings etc .Had a ball met  neat people ate  great food great stories I even thought I got shot at  turned out to be a Dzus fastener flew out  and hit my leading edge at the root fairing at 100 MPH.We met a guy that just bought a coupe I think we were in Tennessee (SYD help me out here) and  we dropped out of the sky in his lap  and this guy looked at Syd's coupe  and mine and  said I ain't seen more than one at a time now there's  three at my airport in the middle of nowhere.He had it flown to him he never flew it yet.That made this guys day.Remember at the Nationals to ask Syd about the Chipper it's worth the wait to hear it.Tep the coupe is a blast I'm thinkin about going to the Bahamas with a group next  April   we will see !!

Dennis  99564

Dan Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

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Wayne Woollard has some serious cross country Ercoupe stories to tell!!!
I'd be interested to hear how other Ercoupe owners do with cross country
travel (Ed?).

In my experience my Erocupe (3968H) works just fine for cross country flight
as long as you're not in a hurry - 100 MPH in the air sure beats driving
anyway!

I fly my Ercoupe about 340 NM from Southern Calfornia over the San
Bernardino Mountains on up to Petaluma, in Northern California to visit my
folks about ever 6 weeks (for the past 6 1/2 years). Cruise is anywhere
from 6,500 to 9,500' and I lean so that fuel burns are around 4.5 to 5.0 GPH
with an O-200, although 5 GPH is more typical at higher cruise power
settings. It's a 4 1/2 hour flight more or less, and we've flown a good
number of those trips at night, landing around 9:00 PM and even as late as
1:00 AM a time or two (that was a bit much!).

We've flown from SoCal to Arlington WA in 2004. We also flew to OSH & back
in 2003, following the I-80 over the Sierra's and Rockies. During those
trips most of my time was spent between 9,500 & 11,500. Yes, it took a LONG
time to climb up that high in the summer heat, and that's only do-able solo
(although with plenty of baggage for OSH).

I've put about 1,000 hours on my Ercoupe in 6.5 years and about 2/3 of that
has been 'cross country' flying.

For longer distance cross country flying an RV-6A would be much better
however, I'd have to spend about 3 times as much to buy one.

I have only flown once off of a grass strip (Frazier Lake). That was at
full dross (+) and on a hot day. The take off roll was long so I would
probably hesitate to try the 1650' grass strip at gross on a hot day unless
there are NO obstructions at the departure end. I'm sure that there are a
number of guys from teh mid-west with FAR more grass strip expereince than
me, so I'll defer to them.

Have FUN !

I love my Ercoupe.
Dan Hall
N3968H
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Coupe-List"
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 7:03 PM
Subject: RE: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Should I be interested in buying an Ercoupe,
Forney, Alon, etc.


> ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any
advice in this forum.]----
>
>
>
> > First, you forgot to add 50 years of settled dust/dirt
> > +25 lbs.
>
> Egads! Don't you clean the interior belly? One good A&P I used year
> after year ALWAYS cleaned the interior belly and washed the entire plane
> during his inspection because that helped him inspect the whole thing,
> inch by inch.
>
> If it ain't been cleaned, it ain't been inspected. JMHO.
>
>
> I'll agree with Bill Bayne that Coupes can be adequate cross-country
> planes. But you do need vacation time to go on a trip 800 miles or
> more - you just can't do it on a weekend. My Coupe went 100 mph, my
> Challenger should cruise about 75 - I hope to do lots of cross-country
> travel in my Challenger, too.
>
>
> Ed Burkhead
> http://edburkhead.com/
> ed -at- edburkheadQQQ.com (change -at- and remove the QQQ)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William R. Bayne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 1:54 PM
> To: COUPERS-FLYIN
> Subject: Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Should I be interested in buying an
> Ercoupe, Forney, Alon, etc.
>
> ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following
> any advice in this forum.]----
>
>
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> Heh heh...I know where you're coming from!
>
> I recognize that Ed Burkhead and I are a minority in believing if you
> =20=
>
> structure the variables that the coupe is as good a cross-country =20
> airplane for a two-place as has been made, absent more modern =20
> homebuilts. As an example, I believe my one gallon of unusable fuel to
> =20=
>
> be twice that actually likely (- 3 lbs.!).
>
> We look for the ways coupes CAN so operate. Of COURSE one must also =20
> envision the ways that they are marginal and adequately compensate. We
> =20=
>
> all have (or should have) a "comfort zone" for our abilities and those
> =20=
>
> of the aircraftin in which we are comfortable.
>
> I also must admit I've yet to see a 75hp or 85 hp coupe properly timed
> =20=
>
> and properly leaned on a cross-country burn 5.5 gph. When you figure
> =20=
>
> that "heavy" coupes and "light" coupes weigh the same at gross, is that
> =20=
>
> in the range of "normal" where you live?
>
> When I was a student pilot, just prior to my first (long) cross-country
> =20=
>
> I had my A&P check my timing. He re-set it WRONG! Because I "knew" =20
> what my burn should be I was not as attentive to the nose tank wire as
> =20=
>
> I should have been. My receipt was for 24 gallons of gas at Blythe. =20
> CA! That lesson will never be forgotton.
>
> The pilot that is methodical, meticulous and precise in learning and =20
> operating a given aircraft can safely and routinely do things that =20
> would entail great danger for others. Perhaps the best example would
> =20=
>
> be Bob Hoover's single-engine aerobatics in a "blueprinted" Aero =20
> Commander landing "dead stick" with precision again and again.
>
> Regards,
>
> WRB
>
> -- =20
>
> On Oct 15, 2004, at 9:34 AM, MAGIC VAC wrote:
>
> > OK, you Devil you,
> > =A0
> > =A0=A0=A0=A0First, you forgot to add 50 years of settled dust/dirt +25
> > =
> lbs.=A0 =20
> > And, my 85 hp Coupe always burned around 5.5 gal/hr.=A0 +25 lbs.=A0 =
> Plus, =20
> > everyone wants that extra degree of safety on fuel, +25 lbs.=A0 Plus,
> > =20=
>
> > what good is a plane if you can only fly every time they mow the =20
> > grass?=A0 + 1.5" grass.=A0 I still don't think it's a 1600 ft grass =
> runway =20
> > summertime airplane.
> > =A0
> > Larry
> >
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: William R. Bayne
> > To: COUPERS-FLYIN
> > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 9:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Should I be interested in buying an =20
> > Ercoupe, Forney, Alon, etc.
> >
> >
> > OK, I'll play "devil's advocate...
> >
> > The pessimist sees the glass as half empty
> > The optimist sees the glass as half full
> > Fred Weick sees the glass twice the size it needs to be.
> >
> > A 925 lb. coupe probably has metal wings, a lot of old instruments and
> > =
> =20
> > radios, multiple coats of paint and plush upholstery. Forneys, Alons
> > =20=
>
> > and Cadets weigh this much, but they have 90hp.
> >
> > A 415-D came out of the factory weighing about 825 lbs. It probably
> > =20=
>
> > has a metal prop today (+8 lbs) but a modern 25 amp battery (-4 lbs)
> > =20=
>
> > and removal of the aileron counterweights (3.5 lbs) cancel this out
> > =20=
>
> > (weightwise, NOT C.G.!).
> >
> > At 4.2 gpm fuel consumption and 100 mph, 250 miles is 4.2 x 2.5 =3D =
> 10.5 =20
> > gal. Add 2.1 gal. for a 30 minute (50 mile) reserve and you have 12.6
> > =20=
>
> > gal. @ 6 lbs./gal, or 75.6 lbs. for fuel. Add a gallon for unusable
> > =20=
>
> > fuel and you have: A 825 lb coupe, with 81.6 lbs. fuel, 320 lbs. =20
> > passengers and 40 lbs. stuff adds up to the approximate max. gross of
> > =20=
>
> > a 415-C or CD, given the variables.
> >
> > Add to the mix some common sense. If you're going on a long trip, plan
> > =
> =20
> > to depart early in the morning (then density altitude performance at
> > =20=
>
> > maximum gross on a hot summer day isn't as important). When you're =20
> > just flying around locally on a summer afternoon, don't carry baggage
> > =20=
>
> > and don't fill the tanks.
> >
> > If the strip is mowed weekly, try to plan a cross-country "departure
> > =20=
>
> > day" within 3 days of mowing so you're dealing with 3-4" grass. I have
> > =
> =20
> > departed Albuquerque at 11am at full gross and 6000' elevation =20
> > (marginal with 85hp) in mid-summer. You don't have to clear ALL the
> > =20=
>
> > mountains around, just have acceptable clearance on the upwind side of
> > =
> =20
> > those on your chosen route, and approach higher terrain at a 45=BA =
> angle =20
> > so that you only have to turn 90=BA to turn away should you encounter
> =
> a =20
> > serious downdraft.
> >
> > If you really want extra climb performance, get a rag wing coupe with
> > =20=
>
> > a C-90 or 0-200. Ed's climb prop sounds worthwhile, and he still got
> > =20=
>
> > better than 100 mph+ cruise performance.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > William R. Bayne
> > <____|-(o)-|____>
> > Copyright 2004
> >
>
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