----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
Hi, guys from Ercoupe N415BZ. I'm writing in relation to the over water flight and questions about survival gear. Not telling anyone what to do, but consider this:
I'm fortunate enough to fly a corporate Canadair Challenger as my day job. One not so fortunate day
we were on Milwaukee approach control as a pilot in a Cherokee killed himself. He was attempting to cross Lake Michigan (80 miles) in an Archer at 11,000ft. about 30 miles out he reported engine trouble, and was sure he could glide back. Over the next several minutes I got to listen to the guy descend to his death. It is something that haunts you just listening to it. For a long time. Engines don't quit often, but they do quit. Think twice about overwater, glide ratios in an Ercoupe, about "just doing it". You don't want to hear the phrase "I guess I'm not gonna make it" from one of your own.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sydney Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 20:05:48 -0600
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Sun-N-Fun itinerary - Plan A
From: Sydney Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 20:05:48 -0600
Subject: [COUPERS-TECH] Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Sun-N-Fun itinerary - Plan A
----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
Hi Don,
You're right, I've never been to the Keys, and maybe I've assumed too much. I sure wouldn't want to ditch my plane in the ocean, and I'm sure the others would feel the same way. Maybe we should reconsider flying to the Keys. I didn't know how few options we would have.
You're also right about landing at Crystal River at 7 pm. We should probably plan to stay overnight in Camilla, GA, and refuel at Crystal River the next morning before flying to Sun-N-Fun.
Thanks for your suggestions. It's always nice to have another set of eyes look over my work.
Syd
DONALD BOWEN wrote:
> Hi, Syd,
> To land where, Syd? You seem to assume excellent visibility, no low > cloud cover, and glide ratios that our Coupes don't have. Moreover, > let's not confuse "need" (as required by regulations), with "need" as > required when your engine quits and you are immediately in deep doo- > doo. The "land" in the Keys is narrow, densely populated with trailer > homes and fish camps and mangrove swamps and a heavily -traveled > single highway. I recognize that you have put a good effort into your > flight planning, but prudence dictates (in my opinion) a > conservative approach. . For example, your plan to arrive at Crystal > Riverat 7 pm (impending darkness) doesn't leave much room for error. > Why all the hurry ? In that vein, I'd guess that some of your flying > group will "hang their hat and asses" on your calculations, and > potentially just plan to "follow the leader". It is only a guess, but > I have led many yacht cruises to and from the Bahamas, and am > consistently amazed at the captains who don't carry appropriate or > update charts, spare fuel filters, etc. They just follow. Try that in > the Miami Terminal Approach Area, and your wingmen would be in deep > trouble the minute they lost sight of the leader, and didn't know > EXACTLY where they were, and where they were going. Incoming and > departing huge commercial jets are everywhere ! Yes, I believe you > have " been there and done that", but the responsibilities of > leadership can weigh heavily on your shoulders, when others of lesser > experience have their lives are at stake and (might be ) completely > depending on you.
> I do not mean to second guess you, Syd, and will now butt out, wth the > suggestin that you and your flight slow down a bit and take time to > smell the roses (aka swamp cabbage) here in beautiful, but not always > VFR, Florida. Good luck.
>
> .
>
> SEMPER FIDELIS
> Don Bowen
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Sydney Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Sydney Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> CC: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Sun-N-Fun itinerary - Plan A
> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:22:37 -0600
>
> ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following > any advice in this forum.]----
>
>
> Not true, Scott. You need lifesaving equipment (life preservers or > raft) if the flight is beyond gliding distance to land. Our flight > crosses only about 5 miles of water, so with enough altitude, we can > easily glide to land.
>
> Syd
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> You only need flotation devices if the flight is operating >> commercialy. Is it a good idea to carry them anyways? Yes. But if you >> dont have room, and you are following a highway, just have fun and do >> it.
>> Scott
>> N94428 '50 G
>
>
>
> ============================================================================== >
> To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
>
>
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To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
Hi Don,
You're right, I've never been to the Keys, and maybe I've assumed too much. I sure wouldn't want to ditch my plane in the ocean, and I'm sure the others would feel the same way. Maybe we should reconsider flying to the Keys. I didn't know how few options we would have.
You're also right about landing at Crystal River at 7 pm. We should probably plan to stay overnight in Camilla, GA, and refuel at Crystal River the next morning before flying to Sun-N-Fun.
Thanks for your suggestions. It's always nice to have another set of eyes look over my work.
Syd
DONALD BOWEN wrote:
> Hi, Syd,
> To land where, Syd? You seem to assume excellent visibility, no low > cloud cover, and glide ratios that our Coupes don't have. Moreover, > let's not confuse "need" (as required by regulations), with "need" as > required when your engine quits and you are immediately in deep doo- > doo. The "land" in the Keys is narrow, densely populated with trailer > homes and fish camps and mangrove swamps and a heavily -traveled > single highway. I recognize that you have put a good effort into your > flight planning, but prudence dictates (in my opinion) a > conservative approach. . For example, your plan to arrive at Crystal > Riverat 7 pm (impending darkness) doesn't leave much room for error. > Why all the hurry ? In that vein, I'd guess that some of your flying > group will "hang their hat and asses" on your calculations, and > potentially just plan to "follow the leader". It is only a guess, but > I have led many yacht cruises to and from the Bahamas, and am > consistently amazed at the captains who don't carry appropriate or > update charts, spare fuel filters, etc. They just follow. Try that in > the Miami Terminal Approach Area, and your wingmen would be in deep > trouble the minute they lost sight of the leader, and didn't know > EXACTLY where they were, and where they were going. Incoming and > departing huge commercial jets are everywhere ! Yes, I believe you > have " been there and done that", but the responsibilities of > leadership can weigh heavily on your shoulders, when others of lesser > experience have their lives are at stake and (might be ) completely > depending on you.
> I do not mean to second guess you, Syd, and will now butt out, wth the > suggestin that you and your flight slow down a bit and take time to > smell the roses (aka swamp cabbage) here in beautiful, but not always > VFR, Florida. Good luck.
>
> .
>
> SEMPER FIDELIS
> Don Bowen
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Sydney Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Sydney Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> CC: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Sun-N-Fun itinerary - Plan A
> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:22:37 -0600
>
> ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following > any advice in this forum.]----
>
>
> Not true, Scott. You need lifesaving equipment (life preservers or > raft) if the flight is beyond gliding distance to land. Our flight > crosses only about 5 miles of water, so with enough altitude, we can > easily glide to land.
>
> Syd
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> You only need flotation devices if the flight is operating >> commercialy. Is it a good idea to carry them anyways? Yes. But if you >> dont have room, and you are following a highway, just have fun and do >> it.
>> Scott
>> N94428 '50 G
>
>
>
> ============================================================================== >
> To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
>
>
==============================================================================
To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
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