Gentelmen,
I'm new here but I would one of you to contact this person at this website.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.tecaeromex.com
He maybe able to provide you with a new catalyst that he's invented and he is a wealth of knowledge on H202.
Ron Shain
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: ERPS-list digest, Vol 1 #462 - 9 msgs
>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:33:01 -0800
>
>Send ERPS-list mailing list submissions to
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>
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>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: KISS III Propulsion System Test (Michael Free)
> 2. RE: KISS III Propulsion System Test (Sean Patrick Daly)
> 3. Re: more thoughts on catalysts (Alex Fraser)
> 4. Re: more thoughts on catalysts (Pierce Nichols)
> 5. thoughts on catalysts (David Weinshenker)
> 6. Re: KISS III Propulsion System Test (Alex Fraser)
> 7. Re: KISS III Propulsion System Test (Andrew Case)
> 8. Re: thoughts on catalysts (Pierce Nichols)
> 9. Re: thoughts on catalysts (David Weinshenker)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>From: "Michael Free" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Sean R. Lynch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "ERPS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Pierce Nichols" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [ERPS] KISS III Propulsion System Test
>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 06:46:39 -0500
>
>If iron oxide is a good enough catalyst for an operational engine, wouldn't
>it be easy to ensure that there's enough steel in the chamber to supply
>enough oxide for a mission in a replaceable "pack"? Remember, mild steel is
>cheap... *and* easy to work, and IIRC less dense than any of the other
>metals mentioned. I'm thinking either a compressed pack of cheap window
>screen or to be more advanced maybe a "block" of steel with passages
>bored/cast through, like a honeycomb (which just for arguments sake, will
>increase in surface area as it wears...)
>
>Mike Free
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Pierce Nichols" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Sean R. Lynch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "ERPS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 12:54 AM
>Subject: Re: [ERPS] KISS III Propulsion System Test
>
>
> > At 09:34 PM 10/28/2002 -0800, Sean R. Lynch wrote:
> >
> > >For example, according to Dan's tests platinum only works well at high
> > >temperatures. I was hoping we could use something a little less
> > >expensive, though. Stainless steel maybe? :) Iron oxide is a catalyst.
> >
> >
> > Stainless steel doesn't form oxides unless seriously provoked --
> > better to go with a mild or carbon steel of convenient properties.
>However,
> > it would be a sacrificial catalyst, as iron oxides are not tenacious and
> > will be carried away at some rate best determined through experiment. It
> > appears that most, if not all, transition metal oxides are at least
> > somewhat catalytic. All of the catalysts for peroxide that I have heard
> > tested or floated in any way are transition metals or their oxides.
> > Anecdotal evidences (such as the requirement for 'burning in' a silver
> > pack) indicates that it's the oxides that have the real catalytic action.
>I
> > think the proper approach to catalyst development is to read through the
> > tables and select those oxides that have otherwise convenient properties
> > and test their activity and resistance to poisoning. The actual working
> > catalyst should be a ceramic composed of the best catalysts found in the
> > search.
> >
> > -p
> >
> >
> > Mars or Bust!
> > www.marssociety.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ERPS-list mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://lists.erps.org/mailman/listinfo/erps-list
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 2
>From: "Sean Patrick Daly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "ERPS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: [ERPS] KISS III Propulsion System Test
>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:05:33 -0500
>
>Not to burst any bubbles, but I have tried screens made from mild steel
>(available at your local hardware store). I found (at room temperature) that
>the steel screens produced a pathetic reaction. The same screens, coated in
>silver, react violently, but for the short period of time it takes to
>blow/melt the silver off my screens.
>
>I have not tested "heating" the steel screens, but I know that at 85% H2O2,
>once the silver is gone, my engine just sprays steamy H202 out the rear with
>pretty much no chamber pressure (mind you, the screens are heated to at
>least 1300 degrees at this point, but stripped of 90% of the silver). So,
>steel at 1300 degrees with 85% H2O2 did not seem to work for me, but I have
>not tested this extensively...
>
>To me, steel seems useless (except when used in tandem with silver in a
>Cat-pack), but I may be wrong. One could theoretically try different
>forms/alloys (Ag-Steel/Ni-Steel?) but I suspect that it would still be a
>fairly poor catalyst compared to Silver.
>
>I have in the past tried a liquid catalyst with Iron Oxide suspended, but
>mixing before engine firing became a pain in the ass, and I found it
>impossible to get a even reaction.
>
>Sean
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Free
>Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 6:47 AM
>To: Sean R. Lynch; ERPS; Pierce Nichols
>Subject: Re: [ERPS] KISS III Propulsion System Test
>
>
>If iron oxide is a good enough catalyst for an operational engine, wouldn't
>it be easy to ensure that there's enough steel in the chamber to supply
>enough oxide for a mission in a replaceable "pack"? Remember, mild steel is
>cheap... *and* easy to work, and IIRC less dense than any of the other
>metals mentioned. I'm thinking either a compressed pack of cheap window
>screen or to be more advanced maybe a "block" of steel with passages
>bored/cast through, like a honeycomb (which just for arguments sake, will
>increase in surface area as it wears...)
>
>Mike Free
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Pierce Nichols" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Sean R. Lynch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "ERPS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 12:54 AM
>Subject: Re: [ERPS] KISS III Propulsion System Test
>
>
> > At 09:34 PM 10/28/2002 -0800, Sean R. Lynch wrote:
> >
> > >For example, according to Dan's tests platinum only works well at high
> > >temperatures. I was hoping we could use something a little less
> > >expensive, though. Stainless steel maybe? :) Iron oxide is a catalyst.
> >
> >
> > Stainless steel doesn't form oxides unless seriously provoked --
> > better to go with a mild or carbon steel of convenient properties.
>However,
> > it would be a sacrificial catalyst, as iron oxides are not tenacious and
> > will be carried away at some rate best determined through experiment. It
> > appears that most, if not all, transition metal oxides are at least
> > somewhat catalytic. All of the catalysts for peroxide that I have heard
> > tested or floated in any way are transition metals or their oxides.
> > Anecdotal evidences (such as the requirement for 'burning in' a silver
> > pack) indicates that it's the oxides that have the real catalytic action.
>I
> > think the proper approach to catalyst development is to read through the
> > tables and select those oxides that have otherwise convenient properties
> > and test their activity and resistance to poisoning. The actual working
> > catalyst should be a ceramic composed of the best catalysts found in the
> > search.
> >
> > -p
> >
> >
> > Mars or Bust!
> > www.marssociety.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ERPS-list mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://lists.erps.org/mailman/listinfo/erps-list
>
>_______________________________________________
>ERPS-list mailing list
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://lists.erps.org/mailman/listinfo/erps-list
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:22:45 -0500
>From: Alex Fraser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [ERPS] more thoughts on catalysts
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>The devil is in the details, comments interspersed.
>
>Pierce Nichols wrote:
>
> > In order to get my thinking on the subject straight, I called my
> > chem consultant (my sister, currently getting a PhD in biology). First, the
> > decomposition reaction is a redox reaction or something similar, which
> > means that, in general, it's the metal oxides doing the catalyzation. My
> > intuition on the subject was correct; now I have some clue as to why.
> > Second, the temperature is only relevant to the catalytic activity to the
> > degree that it affects the oxidation state of the base metal. This may
> > explain why some potential catalysts, such as platinum, show so little
> > activity at room temperature -- they simply are not sufficiently oxidized.
>
>Looking at the tables, I noticed a lot of metals, including silver seem to have
>two oxide states where they can combine either with one or two oxygen molecules
>depending on conditions. Is there any point in talking of this as far as
>utility in catalyst design? I also wonder at the energy levels of O, O2 and O3
>and what state the oxygen can exist at right after the catylization (at
>pressure and temperature)? Could a metal oxide be created by O or O 3 that only
>exist at high temperatures and pressures, but reverts to normal oxides when
>cool? A di silver or tri silver oxide?
>
> >
> > Third, catalytic activity occurs when the peroxide molecule gets 'stuck' to
> > the catalyst surface,
>
>Of course this we want to promote, is it wetting or something more? What force
>here makes the peroxide want to destroy itself? In certain cases would small
>amounts of additives (non catalyst poisons) act to encourage the "sticking".
>If you sit a drop of peroxide on a piece of glass will it sit as water does
>(surface tension)?
>
> > reacts with the catalyst to form an intermediate, and
> > then goes through a second reaction to form the products.
>
>Oh this is good! I wonder what this intermediate is? If the Hydrogen and Oxygen
>are entirely separated for a short period of time and it is the recombining of
>Hydrogen and Oxygen that gives the Exothermic, then you could explain why
>Armadillo's saturated cat pack blew up. It introduced the biprop during the
>intermediate stage. Has any one squirted hydrogen over the cat pack as it is
>soaked in peroxide? Wouldn't that give you pure steam as an exhaust? and a big
>exothermic hubabaloo?
>
> > In this set of
> > reactions, peroxide is serving as the electron donor (reducing agent), and
> > the catalyst is serving as an electron acceptor (oxidizing agent). The
> > energy released in this reaction is proportional the difference in the
> > electron potentials between the donor and acceptor. Since peroxide has a
> > very high electron potential (i.e it's eager to donate), we need to find a
> > metal oxide with a highly negative electron potential (i.e. it's eager to
> > accept).
>
>This sounds like marriage.
>
> > This gives us a search criteria that's easy to work with -- the
> > relevant tables are in the front of the Handbook of Chemistry & Physics.
> > The bigger the difference, the more violent the reaction.
> >
> > -p
> >
> > Mars or Bust!
> > www.marssociety.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ERPS-list mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://lists.erps.org/mailman/listinfo/erps-list
>
>--
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>----<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>........ Alex Fraser N3DER .........
>......... [EMAIL PROTECTED] .......
>[~]_>^^^^<
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 07:47:33 -0800
>To: Alex Fraser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>From: Pierce Nichols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [ERPS] more thoughts on catalysts
>
>At 10:22 AM 10/30/2002 -0500, Alex Fraser wrote:
> >The devil is in the details, comments interspersed.
> >
> >Pierce Nichols wrote:
> >
> >Looking at the tables, I noticed a lot of metals, including silver seem to
> >have
> >two oxide states where they can combine either with one or two oxygen
> >molecules
> >depending on conditions. Is there any point in talking of this as far as
> >utility in catalyst design?
>
>
> Yes, as it happens. The different oxide states will have different
>electron affinities and different physical properties. Although it wasn't
>clear to her thinking off the cuff, she thought that the metal might swap
>oxidization states during the two intermediate reactions. However, which
>one it starts out as will affect the catalytic activity.
>
>
> > I also wonder at the energy levels of O, O2 and O3
> >and what state the oxygen can exist at right after the catylization (at
> >pressure and temperature)? Could a metal oxide be created by O or O 3 that
> >only
> >exist at high temperatures and pressures, but reverts to normal oxides when
> >cool? A di silver or tri silver oxide?
>
>
> Actually, the reaction process is going to start by breaking
>peroxide into two OH groups, which will then recombine later into H2O and O2.
>
>
> >Of course this we want to promote, is it wetting or something more? What force
> >here makes the peroxide want to destroy itself? In certain cases would small
> >amounts of additives (non catalyst poisons) act to encourage the "sticking".
> >If you sit a drop of peroxide on a piece of glass will it sit as water does
> >(surface tension)?
>
>
> The analogy is probably poorly worded. What's meant here is that
>the intermediate products remain fastened to the surface of the catalyst
>and do not move. The base catalyst begins to react when a peroxide molecule
>collides with the surface such that it undergoes the first intermediate
>reaction.
>
>
> >Oh this is good! I wonder what this intermediate is?
>
>
> It will be some oxide/hydroxide complex of the base metal. It
>depends on the exact composition of the catalyst.
>
>
> > If the Hydrogen and Oxygen
> >are entirely separated for a short period of time
>
>
> They aren't -- peroxide is broken into two hydroxyl (OH) groups,
>which then recombine exothermically.
>
> -p
>
>
>Mars or Bust!
>www.marssociety.com
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:42:45 -0800
>From: David Weinshenker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [ERPS] thoughts on catalysts
>
>I suspect that with the silver catalyst, the
>intermediate may be silver peroxide... perhaps
>silver oxide easily thakes up an oxygen from H2O2,
>leaving water and silver peroxide, which is an
>unstable compound that easily decomposes into
>silver oxide and oxygen?
>
>As far as any proposed "new" catalyst, it sounds
>as if y'all are trying to reinvent the "cermet" beads
>we've already got... they appear to be just what you
>are expecting to end up with: may need preheating to
>achieve activity but will survive elevated temperatures.
>
>Since the clarification of the stabilizer-poisoning issue
>approximately concided in time with the genesis of the plan
>to use silver-foam for initial KISS flights (and "flying
>KISS with any kind of catpack, by the _next_ 'Space Access'
>convention", then became the relatively narrow focus of our
>engine efforts), we haven't done much meaningful, recent
>(since we got the batch of 90% stabilized peroxide that caused
>all the confusion) work with the cermet.
>
>Now that we appear to have a means of preparing purer peroxide,
>we should be able to make progress with the cermet...
>
>-dave w
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:17:39 -0500
>From: Alex Fraser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [ERPS] KISS III Propulsion System Test
>To: ERPS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> In the light of the thread " more thoughts on catalysts" and on rereading
>this post below it occurred to me that there are two iron oxides commonly called
>red and black. The formation of steel from iron alloy seems to assure that it
>produces red oxides which flake off easily and don't continue to protect the
>metal, it rusts to ruin. Another formation of iron alloy called wrought iron
>produces a black oxide which protects the metal, it don't flake off.
> I think if you wanted to use iron as a catalyst you would have to experiment
>far up the production chain at the smelting process. Isn't it normally smelt
>with coke? The reaction separating the iron from the ore adds certain other
>elements that might not be good for a catalyst. I don't think common grades of
>iron will do the job (catalyst), and I'm not certain other grades will either.
>
>Sean Patrick Daly wrote:
>
> > Not to burst any bubbles, but I have tried screens made from mild steel
> > (available at your local hardware store). I found (at room temperature) that
> > the steel screens produced a pathetic reaction. The same screens, coated in
> > silver, react violently, but for the short period of time it takes to
> > blow/melt the silver off my screens.
> >
> > I have not tested "heating" the steel screens, but I know that at 85% H2O2,
> > once the silver is gone, my engine just sprays steamy H202 out the rear with
> > pretty much no chamber pressure (mind you, the screens are heated to at
> > least 1300 degrees at this point, but stripped of 90% of the silver). So,
> > steel at 1300 degrees with 85% H2O2 did not seem to work for me, but I have
> > not tested this extensively...
> >
> > To me, steel seems useless (except when used in tandem with silver in a
> > Cat-pack), but I may be wrong. One could theoretically try different
> > forms/alloys (Ag-Steel/Ni-Steel?) but I suspect that it would still be a
> > fairly poor catalyst compared to Silver.
> >
> > I have in the past tried a liquid catalyst with Iron Oxide suspended, but
> > mixing before engine firing became a pain in the ass, and I found it
> > impossible to get a even reaction.
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Free
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 6:47 AM
> > To: Sean R. Lynch; ERPS; Pierce Nichols
> > Subject: Re: [ERPS] KISS III Propulsion System Test
> >
> > If iron oxide is a good enough catalyst for an operational engine, wouldn't
> > it be easy to ensure that there's enough steel in the chamber to supply
> > enough oxide for a mission in a replaceable "pack"? Remember, mild steel is
> > cheap... *and* easy to work, and IIRC less dense than any of the other
> > metals mentioned. I'm thinking either a compressed pack of cheap window
> > screen or to be more advanced maybe a "block" of steel with passages
> > bored/cast through, like a honeycomb (which just for arguments sake, will
> > increase in surface area as it wears...)
> >
> > Mike Free
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pierce Nichols" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Sean R. Lynch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "ERPS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 12:54 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ERPS] KISS III Propulsion System Test
> >
> > > At 09:34 PM 10/28/2002 -0800, Sean R. Lynch wrote:
> > >
> > > >For example, according to Dan's tests platinum only works well at high
> > > >temperatures. I was hoping we could use something a little less
> > > >expensive, though. Stainless steel maybe? :) Iron oxide is a catalyst.
> > >
> > >
> > > Stainless steel doesn't form oxides unless seriously provoked --
> > > better to go with a mild or carbon steel of convenient properties.
> > However,
> > > it would be a sacrificial catalyst, as iron oxides are not tenacious and
> > > will be carried away at some rate best determined through experiment. It
> > > appears that most, if not all, transition metal oxides are at least
> > > somewhat catalytic. All of the catalysts for peroxide that I have heard
> > > tested or floated in any way are transition metals or their oxides.
> > > Anecdotal evidences (such as the requirement for 'burning in' a silver
> > > pack) indicates that it's the oxides that have the real catalytic action.
> > I
> > > think the proper approach to catalyst development is to read through the
> > > tables and select those oxides that have otherwise convenient properties
> > > and test their activity and resistance to poisoning. The actual working
> > > catalyst should be a ceramic composed of the best catalysts found in the
> > > search.
> > >
> > > -p
> > >
> > >
> > > Mars or Bust!
> > > www.marssociety.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > ERPS-list mailing list
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://lists.erps.org/mailman/listinfo/erps-list
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ERPS-list mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://lists.erps.org/mailman/listinfo/erps-list
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ERPS-list mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://lists.erps.org/mailman/listinfo/erps-list
>
>--
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>----<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>........ Alex Fraser N3DER .........
>......... [EMAIL PROTECTED] .......
>[~]_>^^^^<
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:30:38 -0500 (EST)
>From: Andrew Case <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: ERPS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [ERPS] KISS III Propulsion System Test
>
>On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Alex Fraser wrote:
>
> > In the light of the thread " more thoughts on catalysts" and on rereading
> > this post below it occurred to me that there are two iron oxides commonly called
> > red and black. The formation of steel from iron alloy seems to assure that it
> > produces red oxides which flake off easily and don't continue to protect the
> > metal, it rusts to ruin. Another formation of iron alloy called wrought iron
> > produces a black oxide which protects the metal, it don't flake off.
>
>The black (hard) oxide is a lower oxidation state of Fe, and will turn
>into the red (soft, flaky) oxide in the presence of an oxidizer. The only
>way to do a good Iron oxide catalyst is likely to be mixing it with
>something that can be pressed into pellets and fired to produce a ceramic.
>Since ERPS already has a working cermet catalyst, it seems the only issue
>is whether or not to preheat the catalyst, and if so, how. My sense is
>that the best approach is to preheat the catalyst by firing on a warm
>day :-) Simple is good.
>
>......Andrew
>
>--
>Andrew Case |
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] |
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:37:58 -0800
>To: David Weinshenker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>From: Pierce Nichols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [ERPS] thoughts on catalysts
>
>At 08:42 AM 10/30/2002 -0800, David Weinshenker wrote:
> >I suspect that with the silver catalyst, the
> >intermediate may be silver peroxide... perhaps
> >silver oxide easily thakes up an oxygen from H2O2,
> >leaving water and silver peroxide, which is an
> >unstable compound that easily decomposes into
> >silver oxide and oxygen?
>
>
> If you look at the structure of peroxide, this seems an unlikely
>intermediate. The natural break point in the molecule is into two OH
>groups, which then recombine into H2O and O2. That's roughly how the
>catalytic decomposition of peroxide in biological systems works (although
>there is a whole mess of electron transport chains to even things out and
>keep the temp reasonable).
>
>
> >As far as any proposed "new" catalyst, it sounds
> >as if y'all are trying to reinvent the "cermet" beads
> >we've already got... they appear to be just what you
> >are expecting to end up with: may need preheating to
> >achieve activity but will survive elevated temperatures.
>
>
> Hopefully also simpler to make. My ideal catalyst would be a base
>metal or alloy that readily forms useful oxides on the surface with minimal
>treatment at room temperature, possibly with nitric acid or another strong
>oxidizing agent. One of my big problems with the cermet catalyst is that
>not only is the composition some deep dark secret, but I have never heard
>anyone discuss how Kevin went about coming up with it.
>
> -p
>
>
>Mars or Bust!
>www.marssociety.com
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:43:31 -0800
>From: David Weinshenker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Pierce Nichols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [ERPS] thoughts on catalysts
>
>Pierce Nichols wrote:
> > One of my big problems with the cermet catalyst is that
> > not only is the composition some deep dark secret, but
> > I have never heard anyone discuss how Kevin went about
> > coming up with it.
>
>I believe I've heard it described in general terms... I've
>been aware of the organization's wishes for non-disclosure,
>and therefore haven't asked for details... my understanding
>is that Kevin or Michael might give detailed information to
>individuals within the organization (under a nondisclosure
>agreement), but since I have so far had no specific need to
>know that, I simply decided not to ask... I'm willing to keep
>secrets, but prefer not to have to... it's less of a strain
>on the memory that way. :)
>
>On the other hand, if you wanted to make up a batch, I suspect
>Kevin might be willing to give you the details. (Last I heard,
>we have some that has been pressed into pellets and needs only
>the high-temperature bake to become useful catalyst... the best
>way to expedite having catalyst to test with, in the near term,
>might be to find out where the "green" pellets are now and what
>it would take to get them baked.)
>
>(As far as the process of developing it, ISTR some mention
>of lines of research that roughly parallel the recent discussion...)
>
>On the other hand, if you want to do "Something Completely Different"...
>What would it cost to get enough platinum-plated nickel foam to
>fill the KISS e
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