Andrew, I'm in agreement with most all you wrote.  :-)

I did want to comment on this part:
> One of the possible VT risk mitigation strategies that S-K didn't
> mention is assisted launch, like Brian Walker's vehicle. Coupled with
> hold down clamps, assisted launch could increase the safety margin for
> VTHL.

Some type of assisted launch/catapult would be helpful to either the HT or
VT case.  One big help for the VT case is that it can put the vehicle
immediately at a velocity where the aerodynamic controls are useable.  I
think I once calculated that a 5G acceleration (experiencing 6Gs) up a 150
ft tower would put you at about 300 ft/sec.  This could greatly reduce the
requirement for gimballing of the engines.  The ground support/facilities
cost would be high, though.

Brian Walker's vehicle is a bit complex for my taste.  The shedding of all
those fins and the multiple aerodynamic decellerators...

Ken

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Case" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ERPS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [ERPS] Interesting analysis of X-Prize competitors launch modes


>
> On Sunday, May 25, 2003, at 01:40 PM, Ken Doyle wrote:
>
> > This whole issue of aborts in the early takeoff/launch phase between
> > HT and
> > VT designs is being muddled by the variables of when and why the abort
> > is
> > necessary.  Some seem only concerned with aborts during early flight
> > testing, seeming to say that after you've done it once, you'll not
> > have to
> > worry about takeoff aborts again.  I was considering the operational
> > aspects, and concede that you can not do a high-speed taxi test with a
> > VT
> > design.
>
> I think the criticality of abort modes depends on the maturity of the
> technology. You really want intact abort throughout the flight envelope
> while you are testing, but once you've developed confidence it might be
> OK to allow for small regions of the flight envelope where there is no
> intact abort option (though IMO there should never be any portion of
> the flight envelope where there is no option to save the crew). Ideally
> you have abort throughout the envelope, but that's not always
> operationally practical.
>
> There are probably ways to ensure intact abort for VTHL during flight
> testing, though I think they might be incompatible with testing the
> vehicle in operational configuration. I'll also readily concede that my
> preferred mode (VTVL) has serious issues in the early phase of the
> flight as far as intact abort goes. The way this can be handled is with
> redundancy in the engines, which is also the way to handle it with
> VTHL. The HL option still needs a pitch over in order to land (and some
> horizontal velocity for lift). Not necessarily impossible to ensure,
> but it makes for a sportier abort scenario than the VL early flight
> abort, which is to dump fuel and plunk down in the nearest flat spot.
>
> > Operationally, you'll always have to be prepared for takeoff aborts at
> > any
> > point.  An abort decision/event at the point where you're at rotation
> > V on a
> > HT ride will be dangerous.  Recall the Concord takeoff crash a while
> > back.
> > They had warnings that they were on fire and had a blown tire while the
> > aircraft was still on the runway but they were committed to flight
> > because
> > of the speed and runway remaining.  Always operating only from
> > incredibly
> > long runways where that isn't a potential scenario is quite an
> > operational
> > restriction.
>
> Good point. At some point in the maturation of the vehicle you have to
> be willing to accept that the trades may work out in favor of having
> regions of the flight envelope where intact abort isn't an option.
> Personally I think that's a situation that should be avoided wherever
> possible, but it's not always possible (from an ops optimization
> standpoint, that is). It is possible, however to design to minimize the
> portion of the envelope where this is the case, and it's also possible
> to design so as to avoid the *requirement* for dead zones in the flight
> envelope - if they become operationally desirable later that's one
> thing, but designing them in from the get-go seems to me like a poor
> choice.
>
> > My point was intended to express that in either HT or VT, there are a
> > number
> > of seconds where an abort caused by complete loss of thrust will be
> > deadly.
>
> I'm not convinced that this is the case for HT on a long runway, at
> least not for a conservatively designed vehicle. For VT it's true that
> early flight total loss of thrust means loss of vehicle. The solution
> to this is redundancy, preferably redundancy that avoids the
> possibility of common-mode failures.
>
> > The VT craft that Marti outlined as his preference has 2g takeoff
> > thrust.
> > At the mentioned 100m abort altitude, either the 1g HT craft or the 2g
> > VT
> > craft can lose half the thrust and continue upward while proceeding
> > with the
> > Abort procedures.
>
> Yep. My objection to the paper is not to the choice of modes per se,
> but to the presentation of VTHL as the only sensible path. I lean
> towards VTVL myself, but I'm not theologically bound to disparage all
> other modes. VT has some drawbacks that should be acknowledged by any
> honest analysis. The Sarigul-Klijn paper has a lot of good stuff in it,
> and it's well worth reading, but it has drawbacks in the author's
> failure to critically examine their preferred vehicle. All possible
> takeoff and landing modes have tradeoffs associated with them.
>
> One of the possible VT risk mitigation strategies that S-K didn't
> mention is assisted launch, like Brian Walker's vehicle. Coupled with
> hold down clamps, assisted launch could increase the safety margin for
> VTHL.
>
> > You HT advocates appear to be accepting of remarkable otherwise
> > unnecessary
> > landing gear, brakes, and wing mass penalties all in the name of
> > believing a
> > Horizontal Takeoff mode to be intrinsically safer.
>
> That's one of the tradeoffs associated with HT. Whether it's more of a
> drawback than the difficulty of safely aborting a VT launch, or the
> impossibility of doing gradual envelope expansion in a mixed-mode
> vehicle is something that has to be decided by the people who will
> build and fly the ship. It's not a slam-dunk either way.
>
> > The CG control is actually less of an issue with the VTHL design than
> > the
> > HTHL design.  HT craft must manage propellant mass location at high
> > flow
> > rates such that the CG stays within a relatively narrow range while
> > the wing
> > is being used for lift.  This complicates tankage and plumbing layout
> > for a
> > HT craft relative to a VT craft.
> >
> > Indeed, the VT hybrid cannot abort and land completely empty of liquid
> > oxidizer and solid fuel.  Some oxidizer may need to stay onboard to
> > balance
> > the remaining solid fuel load.  However, the remaining solid fuel load
> > will
> > normally be less than half of what was on board at takeoff.
>
> This need not be the case if the hybrid is a coaxial design, with fuel
> down the center and oxidizer tanks around the outside. Another
> possibility is to palletize the propulsion system so that in the even
> of emergency you dump the whole thing - tanks, engine, everything. It
> adds failure modes, but it gets rid of a lot of weight fast (assuming
> it doesn't hang up partway out and make things a lot worse). A
> palletized propulsion system is an advantage for hybrids anyway, since
> refueling involves basically replacing the engine.
>
> > And, while
> > dumping propellant, the hybrid vehicle is only dumping oxidizer rather
> > than
> > a propellant combination designed to normally burn furiously in
> > combination;
> > a preferred option if one is already on fire.
>
> Smart design says you put fuel dump ports on the opposite side of the
> vehicle from the oxidizer dump ports, so the fire should be some
> distance behind you. Not a great advantage if you're doing VL, but at
> least the pilot has options.
>
> ......Andrew
>
> --
> Dr. Andrew Case, PhD.
> Institute for Research in Electronics and Applied Physics,
> University of Maryland, College Park
> "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
>   - David Hume
>
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