Please, Jacob, pull that impacted hair out of your ass. I send this along simply for closure on the subject. For the record, the response from Marten Mickos of MySQL AB (below) was to a copy of Mike Furgal's reply to my protest sent to the webmaster of mySQL.org. I don't know Mike's job title at mySQL.org. Perhaps he _is_ the webmaster. He's an unthinking dweeb who has never had to make a payroll, IMHO. THE END. Good night. iamdonenow......&away...}(X)>%~ cc: Marten Mikos * * * Martin, This above is a note to a member of the Eugene, Oregon, USA, LUG. We've been having a little go round about NuSphere who he makes a fairly credible case defending. Reasonable mind may differ. I don't agree with him. I think NuSphere is over the line; he doesn't. I doubt I will hear more from NuSphere but if I do and it is relevant to the issues between you I will happily forward it to you. You will find my last e-mail to Jacob cut and pasted at the bottom. It shows one opinion on the subject. The rest of the group doesn't seem interested enough in the issue to respond. I hope Jacob and I can let it drop, because I think he and I agree more than disagree. I just don't _quite_ buy his brand of laisse faire Capitalism. The number of people who make substantial contributions to "open source" are few compared to those who diddle with it and profit by it in some way. They are legion. I suspect the "deafening silence" you may be experiencing on this issue reflects the convenience of hypocrites. Dennis Eberl [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---------- > From: Marten Mickos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:16:00 +0300 > To: "Dennis J. Eberl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: I PROTEST YOUR VIOLATION OF MYSQL GPL > > Dennis, > > Thanks for your support! We appreciate it very much. > > If you have copies of emails from NuSphere or mysql.org, we would be > interested in seeing them, as they might help us prove the true intentions > of NuSphere. > > Marten Mickos > CEO > > At 21/08/01 17:03 -0700, you wrote: >> Hi, Mike, see below. >> >>> From: Mike Furgal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:55:56 -0500 (CDT) >>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Subject: Re: I PROTEST YOUR VIOLATION OF MYSQL GPL >>> >>> >>> Dennis: >>> >>> Thank you for your email. I'd like to respond to you so you are >>> clear about MySQL AB, Nusphere, and mySQL.org. >>> >>> >>>> I'm not a great believer in the open source revolution. I think Eric >>> >>> I am a believe in Open Source technology. It has been >>> proven that community built software is superior to >>> proprietary software (Linux is a great example). >> >> >> Well, good for you, but what you believe is irrelevant to the issue at hand, >> isn't it? >> >> >>>> >>>> I also think OPEN SOURCE tools like Linux and MySQL benefit all of mankind >>>> and are too important to be allowed to become private property. >>> >>> I agree 100% with this statement. This is exactly why mySQL.org >>> exists. >> >> >> I doubt it. Your site exists to promote NuSphere by promoting MySQL. If you >> think otherwise, may I suggest you are naive? Only a thought. I am not >> trying to tick you off. I appreciate your determined and lengthy reply. >> >> >>> Recently MySQL AB (The creators of the MySQL database) >>> aquired Venture Funding to grow their company. In addition >> >> >> What is the point, please? So what. Good for them. A little dirty little >> doubt to keep them going. They've made a great contribution to the so-called >> open source "community". Why shouldn't they? >> >> >>> they have made a great push in trying to get people to buy >>> commercial licenses of their product. I have no problem with >> >> >> They've had that in their licensing scheme since the get go. They did the >> work. They can do what they want. >> >> >>> either of these decisions for any company that deals with >>> propriatery software, but this goes against the spirit of >>> Open Source development. >> >> >> So what. All "open source" software is ultimately funded by commercial >> interests of one sort or another, and there is nothing wrong with that >> provided those interests are detached (e.g., an author of "open source" code >> has a job that makes his free coding activity possible) or overt (RedHat >> makes money selling GNU/Linux/Apache/etc distributions available on CDROM). >> You have a lot of nerve saying MySQL AB shouldn't try to profit from their >> code. It hasn't stopped your employer from selling it. >> >> >>> In addition, MySQL AB will not allow the community to contribute >>> to the product they deliver unless the copyright of the code is >>> signed over to MySQL AB. By maintaining the copyrights to all >> >> >> Yes, that probably does have a lot of snot noses in "the community" out of >> joint. What do I care? Maybe what MySQL AB should do is make MySQL totally >> unavailable except for purchase (something their own licensing scheme >> probably prohibits). Those who do the work ought to get the rewards unless >> they choose to give it away. >> >> By the way, Mike, are you a volunteer at mysql.org? How would you feel if >> your paycheck failed to show up on time? >> >> >>> the code in the MySQL server they have the right to sell a >>> commericial license on the code. Again this is not how Open >>> Source Software is supposed to be developed. >> >> >> Who handed down the "supposed to be" carved in stone. Don't you think the >> people at MySQL AB have to eat? What about little My? (Well, she's probably >> not so little any more.) >> >> >>>> >>>> NuSphere's recruitment of developers to "help make MySQL great" under the >>>> fraudulent flag of mySQL.org is disgraceful. Indeed, YOU may well find >>> >>> NuSphere is not recruiting developers to make MySQL great, >> >> >> That's for sure. >> >> >>> mySQL.org is. It is true that NuSphere launched mySQL.org, >>> but since that launch NuSphere has had little to do with >>> mySQL.org. >> >> >> On the advice of their Attorney, no doubt. >> >> >>> mySQL.org is a non-profit organization made up >>> of people from several different companies (NuSphere being >>> one of them). >> >> >> Wait a minute. Who is your employer? What do you mean "from several >> different companies"? Did they leave their jobs to come to work for >> mysql.org or are they volunteers still on the payroll of their original >> employers? If it's the latter or anything close to it, your "non-profit" tax >> status is fraudulent and ought to be examined by the IRS. >> >> >>> It is true that I am a NuSphere employee, >> >> >> Oh, my God. Where's my whistle ... >> >> >>> but I am just one of the many people involved in the mySQL >>> organization. I work on mySQL.org related issues on my >>> time not on NuSphere's time. >> >> Ah, you work all day at NuSphere, for which you get paid, and when you go >> home you work all night for mySQL.org, for which you don't get paid. What >> would happen to your day job if you let it be know that you didn't want to >> work all night for nothing on mySQL.org. Would you be shunned as being anti >> open source community? What would happen to your day job if you developed >> good sense and told sleaze bags that run NuSphere your Ethics Violation >> Warning Lights were blinking and you refused to work for free on the >> mySQL.org. E-mail me on your wireless PDA from the unemployment line. >> >> Mike, does the world need another non-profit organization, especially a >> patently bogus commercial interest shill non-profit organization? >> >> # whois mysql.org >> >> << >> Registrant: >> NuSphere Corporation (MYSQL8-DOM) >> 14 Oak Park >> Bedford, MA 01730 >> US >> >> Domain Name: MYSQL.ORG >> >> Administrative Contact: >> Markman, Peter (PMN366) [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> NuSphere Corporation >> 14 Oak Park >> Bedford, MA 01730 >> US >> (781) 280-4000 (781) 280-4035 >> Technical Contact: >> Goulet, Denis (DGM500) [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> NuSphere Corporation >> 14 Oak Park >> Bedford, MA 01730 >> US >> (781) 280-4000 (781) 280-4035 >> Billing Contact: >> Buckley, Judy (JBL1071) [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> NuSphere Corporation >> 14 Oak Park >> Bedford, MA 01730 >> US >> (781) 280-4000 (781) 280-4035 >> >> Record last updated on 06-Jul-2001. >> Record expires on 04-Jun-2002. >> Record created on 04-Jun-2001. >> Database last updated on 21-Aug-2001 04:42:00 EDT. >> >> Domain servers in listed order: >> >> NS.RACKSPACE.COM 207.235.16.2 >> NS2.RACKSPACE.COM 207.71.44.121 >>>> >> >> What is it that mySQL.org contributes to the open source "community" that >> MySQL AB doesn't contribute? >> >> As for NuSphere itself. I think their product (an easy to deploy database >> driven web site development environment) is a terrific idea. I applaud them >> for it and wish them financial success -- provided they cut the crap. >> >>>> You know I actually bought your product a couple of years ago. I hoped it >>>> would be a convenient time saver, but it didn't work. I think your >> customer >>>> service folks sent me an upgrade on a CD, but by that time I had >> downloaded >>>> and configured what I needed by myself -- learning much in the process and >>>> hanging on to my cash. >>> >>> Good for you! Knowledge learned is better than knowledge >>> bought anyday! >>> >>> As for the rest of the email, it seems directed at NuSphere. If you >>> have a gripe with NuSphere, please email them directly at nusphere.com. >> >> >> Sorry, NuSphere's little scam on the "Open Source" "community" is already >> sufficiently well understood by those running NuSphere that an e-mail >> "directed at" them would be superfluous. They are lucky I don't care enough >> about their shady little scam to blow the whistle on them to the >> Massachusetts AG's office and the IRS. >> >> >>> I hope this clears things up a bit on what mySQL.org is and isn't. >> >> >> Gee, you know, Mike, it really doesn't. >> >> Have a Nice Day, >> >> Dennis Eberl >> >> >> >>> Mike Furgal - Where mySQL is your SQL. >>> >>>> >>>> Don't, Mr/Ms/Madam Webmaster, take this personally. >>>> >>>> I'm not a great believer in the open source revolution. I think Eric >>>> Raymond >>>> is a brilliant guy who has wasted his gifts cranking out a crackpot >>>> economic >>>> theory that confuses the young and idealistic. >>>> >>>> I also think OPEN SOURCE tools like Linux and MySQL benefit all of mankind >>>> and are too important to be allowed to become private property. >>>> >>>> NuSphere's recruitment of developers to "help make MySQL great" under the >>>> fraudulent flag of mySQL.org is disgraceful. Indeed, YOU may well find >>>> yourself out of a job, because you work for a company driven by greedy >>>> corporate yutzes who will drill it into the ground. >>>> >>>> You know I actually bought your product a couple of years ago. I hoped it >>>> would be a convenient time saver, but it didn't work. I think your >> customer >>>> service folks sent me an upgrade on a CD, but by that time I had >> downloaded >>>> and configured what I needed by myself -- learning much in the process and >>>> hanging on to my cash. >>>> >>>> And, recently, I was happy to sign up for your seminar in Portland, OR for >>>> $99. Unfortunately -- maybe, fortunately, actually -- I couldn't go at the >>>> last minute. >>>> >>>> That makes my total out of pocket outlay to NuSphere somewhere just under >>>> 200 bucks. >>>> >>>> Don't ever expect me to spend even a 34 cent stamp on you guys again. >>>> >>>> If you want to live in cyperspace and profit (this is _NOT_ a threat >> but an >>>> assessment) you guys better sit your asses down and settle up with MySQL >>>> AB. >>>> No on in the open source community is going to send you a dime until you >>>> do. >>>> >>>> Wise up. Also, imperitive you apologize publicly to MySQL on multiple >> sites >>>> if you want to regain any credibility at all. I mean really apologize. >>>> Someone at NuSphere -- and I mean someone at the top -- needs to get fired >>>> over this or you can kiss your credibility goodbye. >>>> >>>> Dennis J. Eberl, Former Customer >>>> >>>> >>> > > - - - > Marten Mickos > MySQL AB > tel +358 40 500 1153 > fax +358 922 300 750 > www.mysql.com > > *********************************************** Jacob, you are giving me a headache, man. I don't care. I just don't like deception. Let's drop it. I don't care. Yes, MySQL AB should've don't there homework. The only reason they have a domain name at all is that some well meaning fan had the foresight to lease mysql.com and immediately signed it over to them. I'm not losing any sleep over this. Remember, you don't know me. I'm trying to give you the same benefit of the doubt although my comment using a certain four letter word below (...bring the reader along...) proves I've failed somewhat. Let's not waste bandwidth with another go around, Ok? I just don't care. Dennis > From: Jacob Meuser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:07:36 -0700 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [EUG-LUG:2434] Re: NuSphere vs MySQL GPL controversy > > On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 03:07:57PM -0700, Dennis J. Eberl wrote: >> >> I don't really care very much about this issue, but my opinion is that using >> "mySQL" as part or their domain name is deceptive > > Maybe I misunderstand capitalism, but isn't it "capitalising on > resources available to you, that other's don't have access to, or know > about"? If I'm correct, deception is a cornerstone of capitalism. > > and ought to be considered >> a trademark violation. > > Trademarks are not "natural", in the sense that copyright is. > > Anyone naive enough to contribute code to mySQL.org >> is contributing to NuSphere's bottom line (their fork of MySQL) without >> knowing it. > > If they have a problem with that, then they should enlighten themselves. > > Even if NuSphere forwards all contributions to MySQL AB (they >> probably do), they are merely redundant at best and are creating more work >> for Michael Widenius, creator of MySQL, who reworks all code that makes it >> into MySQL. >> > And that wouldn't happen if, say, *I* sent a patch to MySQL AB? I doubt > ANY self respecting software author would blindly add contributed > patches to his/her codebase. > >> >>>> MySQL.og makes statements >>>> like "mySQL.org is dedicated to the promotion and improvement of the fast, >>>> free, and flexible MySQL database. We provide the Open Source community a >>>> center for free downloads, information and communication, as well as all >>>> the >>>> files you need to build applications based on MySQL, the #1 open source >>>> database." >>> >>> So? What's wrong with that? >> >> It's a lie. > > No it's not. They want people to use these tools ... so they can make > money supporting them. > > NuSphere is dedicated to NuSphere, not to making the open source >> software that it uses as a money making tool -- not just, MySQL, but also >> Apache, Perl, PHP. But, hey, caveat emptor. >> > Apache, perl and php are *NOT* GPL. In fact, their licenses are A LOT like > the BSD license. www.perl.com is still displaying NuSphere ads, so I > don't think they are too angry with them. > >> Not so fast. RedHat, Mandrake, Caldera et cetera make no bones about being >> businesses that package Linux and GNU software in an "easy to install" form. >> NuSphere hides behind a phony web site pretending to be a champion of open >> source. It's a fine point. If you don't get it you don't get it. >> > And you've never heard or read "I just installed Linux 7.1"? Obviously, > the people who write and say such things have been decieved (or didn't > read the fine print). >> >>> I don't think this dispute is cut and dry. I think MySQL AB is complain- >>> ing that mysql.org portrays itself as the "authority" on mySQL. If you >>> were trying to make money on support, wouldn't you try to protray >>> yourself as an "authority"? >> >> I'm tired and not to focused today, but let me try giving your thoughtful >> question the thoughtful answer it deserves. I would say that if you really >> were an authority on something and in business, you not only have the right >> but the duty to your investors to "portray" [your word, not mine] yourself >> as such -- and proudly put your _name_ on that portrayal, not hide behind a >> bogus domain name. Sorry. That's the best I can do at the moment. Notice >> that RedHat et alia don't pretend they are something they are not. >> > They do recruit developers to work on (THEIR version of) Linux ... But I > understand what you're saying about them being more open about their intents. That's my only point. I think NuSphere is too close to the line if not actually over it. That's what ticked me off. It smells bad to me. Maybe you like the smell of shit. >> Good for you, Jacob. MySQL is still shark meat. >> > Then that's THEIR problem. I understand that the laws, and probably > business practices, in Sweden are different than in the US. All I can > say is "Tough luck, you shuld have done your homework." > >> Final comment. I sent the webmaster at mysql.org an e-mail explaining my >> position, which is (1) that the domain name is deceptive and in my view >> unethical, and (2) that the lame brain corporate yutz who dreamt the idea up >> ought to get canned. I have no problem with NuSp[h]ere bundling a product, but >> their fine print is a little too fine for me. >> > Yes, yes, YES! *That's* the way to handle it. NOT in a court of law. That is the approach MySQL AB is taking. > > > -- > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > ETX ***********************************************
