Darren Hayes wrote:
No need to be defensive.
Much of the info I cited was based on info found in both City of Eugene
Council minutes/agendas, in EWEB minutes/agendas and also quotes from former
city council members. So looks like most corrections to inaccuracies need to
be made there.
Actually that was mentioned to me.. that it looked like references were
made to things that were not solidified... and at some point became moot.
Please define the 'EWEB fiber network". Is there an online map we can see?
How does the EWEB Fiber network relate to the MetroNet and to PANnet? Is
there a map of both MetroNet fiber and PANnet administered fiber, which also
shows the various institutional interfaces/interconnects to the PAN network
and other local fiber networks. And is there a map of fiber where EWEB was
"contracted" by run the fiber?
I asked about a map too , but in a post 9/11 world Im thinking that will
be harder to come by, though maybe not impossible. EWEB is regulated by
NERC which has specific guidelines now on protecting critical
infrastructure. Some of it is dumb from a certain point of view.. for
example EWEB has to protect a map that has the same information as a
map you can buy at the gas station a few blocks away.
Regarding that the EWEB is not "owned" by the city but is "chartered"...
tomato/tomatoe.
I have to disagree here. I've worked for various governments in the
area for about 14 years now. I dont think I could work for the City. I'm
real tempted to tell a bunch of horror stories about things I've seen in
general from different local fronts.. but since this is a public forum
I'm going to have to refrain. :( ( and I can think of a specific
example where what I saw on Lane Metro TV was the complete opposite of
what was actually happening internally - so dont believe everything you
read in minutes until its a done deal )
I'm really not trying to be defensive - Im willing to call a duck a duck
or a goose if the case may be, but there are indeed a lot of things I
like about EWEB - for example they pay thier employees market value -
and that market value is researched and adjusted every 2 years.. how
nice it is to actually be paid what your worth for a change.
With the need to do "in-house" research sounds as if some sensitive nodes
were touched on.
I would love to hear an update on MetroNet. My simple search on the subject
locates only old documents. I hope current info on the status on MetroNet is
not all in-house or all "underground" ;-)
Aye - Ill ssee if I can dig anything up..
I stand firm in my belief that the revenue bond and charter change would
have never passed if the current status quo was presented to the city
citizens/taxpayers as a potential/likely end scenario.
Darren
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Eugene Unix and Gnu/Linux User Group" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Eug-lug] MetroNet revisited (was wi-fi hell--let's talk WiMax)
PS - In discussing this thread with some EWEB employees .. to sum it up
the response was -
"
The list of inaccuracies and errors I see
is
lengthy.
Though Im not really in a position to set the record straight.. some
comments made to me -
EWEB is not owned by the City.. they are chartered by the City.. its a
different thing.
EWEB does not run fiber to City libraries - there was one instance
apparently where EWEB was paid to run some fiber I think to a Barger
location .. but its not a part of EWEB's fiber network
... nor are any other private runs as far as I know that are a part of
EWEB's fiber infrastructure.
If someone really wants the real deal .. they should contact EWEB Public
Affairs, I'm sure they would be happy to oblige.
Mark
Ben Barrett wrote:
It is my understanding that anyone (including private industry and
citizens) can buy fiber uplink from EWEB, th hitch is having a
location that non-dark fiber already comes to or [the expense of]
having fiber laid to your location. I think service is not cheap but
I think it is a "better deal" than Qworst's T1's in a number of ways :)
I might be wrong, and YMMV...
Ben
Michael Miller wrote the following on 1/24/2006 10:15 AM:
I guess it's a nice thing that the city decided to add a 4th floor to
the Library. The reason I say this is because there is more room for
books. Instead of the Library giving up space for books for people.
Anyway I think that the "government" might have a short fall in
funding (someday). If they don't already and will lease out the fiber
to make money. It makes no since that some entity would lay fiber and
not use (or resell) the unsued capacity. Then again there might not
be any discussion or budget problems.
Mike Miller
On 1/23/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
While I dont know the history I do know the fiber I work with is
"government" only and has something to do with regulations of some
sort.
Im not aware of any private entities getting fiber from EWEB. This is
why its a big deal to sell that building to Peacehealth.. all the fiber
infrastructure would need to be moved.. seems to me if Peacehealth
actually owned or leased a part of it it would stay. But Im not an
authority on the subject - I know who is though.. and can do some
checking.
This wouldnt surprise me though.. the city has done this kind of stuff
before.. like the Library .. taxpayers voted.. was supposed to be 3
stories .. then they added a 4th to house non library staff... and
there
was some sort of budget finagling. ... then oh by the way that bond
measure included building the library but didnt include the costs to
run
it. .. another bond measure.. and it passed. So im not sure who is
the
bigger idiots .. the people that run government that way or the people
who keep voting the bond measures in . Glad I dont pay those taxes...
Mark
Darren Hayes wrote:
Just some background on MetroNet...
Original intent was for the City of Eugene to have EWEB build out
fiber for
local Metropolitan Area Network (Initial Phase) then later bring
fiber to
the curb for everyone in 2007 (Universal Build Phase). Plan also
included
opening up the network (Open Access/OpenPlatform) so other vendors
could
utilize capacity.
A revenue bond measure and then later a city charter change
allowing the
City to proceed with the build out passed with much grassroots
support, but
with wide opposition coming from local business interests and from
Qwest,
ATT Broadband (now Comcast) and other self-interests.
Then not soon after EWEB (owned by the City of Eugene) nixed the
Universal
Build Phase and decided to serve only public, quasi-public and
institutional
facilities via the Public Agency Network (PAN). Reason given was
EWEB did
not want to incur additional debt and have electrical or water
customers
subsidize the Universal build phase. So the MetroNet idea was
transformed
with a focus to run fiber ONLY to "existing customers only". That
meant
EWEB's current partners in PAN with a scope which continued to
include large
businesses and large users only. Besides EWEB and the City of
Eugene PAN (or
PANet) includes the ESD 4J, LTD, Lane Co, SUB, LCOG/RIS, UofO, LCC,
City of
Springfield, LaneESD and other public entities.
Note that EWEB utilized (and continues to utilize) the proceeds of
the bond
sale to finance fiber build out related to build out of "EWEB fiber
network"
for internal operations.
Was the idea of the Universal Phase "used" to promote the bond
measure to
get the "Initial Phase" done. Was there truly any real dedication
in making
the Universal build phase a reality? Wondering what major changes
occurred
with performa numbers between the time the measure appeared on the
ballot
and the time EWEB and City of Eugene changed course and nixed the
Universal
Build idea? The end-result is EWEB ratepayers and City of Eugene
taxpayers
backing the debt financing the "Initial Phase" servicing private
properties/facilities owned by large businesses and large local
developers.
It is very likely many involved in the grass-roots campaign
supporting the
bond measure and charter change would not have if they had
knowledge of the
current status/end result.
EWEB has ran fiber to many of it's PAN partners including schools
in Eugene
School District 4J. Some of the fiber is leased but much is still
dark. Each
year 4J continues to lease more fiber capacity from EWEB to replace
Qwest T1
lines and also to continue 4J WAN build out (e.g. 4J schools are also
implementing voice services on the data network).
EWEB has ran fiber to the city libraries, fire stations, the airport,
satellite police stations, etc. And the plan was for EWEB to run
fiber to
and/or share fiber with private entities, i.e. Reg-Gd, Hynix,
Valley River
Center and Country Club Road medical offices and other ancillary
businesses,
BLM, USFS, State of Oregon and Lane County buildings, Peace Health,
etc. (I
still don't understand the Chambers involvement with "Light The
Apple"?
Could not EWEB and 4J done this on their own at effectively the
same or
lower cost?) Wondering how many private businesses located in
downtown core
are now connected via EWEB fiber?
And I'm wondering what has happened to this idea of City of
Eugene/EWEB
making MetroNet independent? Acquiring info on any of these topics
is quite
difficult. The local media was all over the subject back at the
start of the
decade, but the subject does not appear to be discussed publicly
any longer.
Is anyone aware of a current local fiber map? Found a 5.5 year old
version
(produced in 2001 when the original push for MetroNet was underway) at
http://cc.uoregon.edu/fiber/
BTW on an "unrelated" note, today accessing docs from the City of
Eugene's
public web server is like pulling teeth. Must be by-product of
running on
IIS with FrontPage Extensions. Or an Oregon IX or OWEN issue?
Anyway local
hop times over wcg.net (Williams) and nero.net are very sluggish
today. See
http://netfoo.nero.net/cgi-bin/netviewer.cgi?meta=partner&locale=CityEugene
Darren
...
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