Right on, thanks Quentin -- this better-defined "fakeraid" is much
worse than soft-raid in many cases, I think, because drive recovery
after say mobo failure could be extremely difficult unless you have an
identical board (or close-enough chipset) available on reserve... with
soft-raid, provided you backup & clearly document your config,
drivers, certain kernel settings, etc, you should be able to move the
array to another host without much headache or surprise liability :)
Plus, it has been said for years now that for commodity hardware &
consumer-grade arrays, modern CPU's are *plenty* fast enough to
maintain throughput using simple soft-raid.

I have not seen the most recent benchmarks or fully examined the
latest HA (high-avail) compromises, but SCSI is still much better that
SATA (bye, PATA) for high-volume multithreaded uses needed for many
email, DB, web, and other servers.  Still, the underlying platters are
not very different:  vertical/perpendicular recording pushed Moore's
wall again, so we've got way better volume and speed from today's
single drives than we had with low- and even some mid-range arrays of
yesteryear... so even when just hobbying about, a question is HOW are
you going to usefully test the throughput of your array?  Is it a feat
in itself, or a practical solution?  :)  I digress.

At the LUG level, I see the ability to save data as being a great
promotion of open source.  Proprietary RAID solutions have a built-in
"easter egg of danger" since the redundancy is an illusion if their
secret technology fails for any given unknown reason -- one is not
likely able to make any clever assessments beyond the advertised
capabilities, when the inevitable situational surprise arises.  In
short, a responsible customer gets "stuck".
If this isn't making any sense to you, I'd like to simply propose the
breaking and recovery of a raid array at a public function like the
eugene celebration.  I would be happy to bring down a sledgehammer and
provide the single drive which we'll rip out and destroy (to great
effect but in a contained manner).  After that hooplah, a simple
showing of the recovery:  rebuilding in progress, etc, and some
well-planted statements from the audience about whether this reliable
and well-supported, free technology could help our government's
accountability or something :)

thanks y'all, ciao,

ben


On Nov 16, 2007 1:42 PM, Garl Grigsby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Quentin Hartman wrote:
> > On Nov 15, 2007 9:29 AM, Ben Barrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >
> >     https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FakeRaidHowto ("Fake" raid is
> >     soft raid, nothing really fake about it)
> >     I don't know why software RAID does not get more respect these
> >     days.  When processors were just babies,
> >     hardware raid was needed for reasonable performance, but now soft
> >     raid is really fast, unless you're comparing
> >     it with enterprise-grade NAS setups.  IMO soft raid is fine for
> >     non-SCSI RAIDs :)
> >
> >
> > Just a clarification on this point. Fakeraid is (every time I've seen
> > it, anyway..) used to refer to raid cards that claim to have RAID, but
> > actually offload all the raid functionality to the host machine via a
> > driver. Most of these cards only have a firmware program to manage the
> > drives, nothing else is done in hardware. Hence the name Fakeraid, it
> > looks like hardware raid, but it's not, it's fake. This is also
> > sometimes called firmware raid. A very small percentage (I only know
> > of one) of these cards also have a hardware XOR engine for offloading
> > the work required for Raid 5. Ooohhh... Fakeraid+ :)
> >
> > My rule of thumb is to use true hardware when it's available, and to
> > require it in "important" servers. Failing that, I use software raid.
> > You get 80-90% of the performance of hardware raid in most use cases,
> > and management is consistent from machine to machine. The
> > "middleground" Fakeraid gets you none of the performance advantages of
> > true hardware raid since everything is offloaded to the host anyway,
> > and introduces a whole bunch of vendor-specific complications, so I
> > avoid it entirely.
> I'll throw in a 'yup, me too'. Fakeraid is a tremendous headache waiting
> to happen. Either go true hardware raid (if you've got the budget AND
> you can afford to have a spare card on hand) or go software raid.
>
> garl
>
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