Totally agree with martjin, adding up that also having a conference that long makes it more expensive and some people will be discouraged to go. El 15/04/2014 15:40, <europython-requ...@python.org> escribió:
> Send EuroPython mailing list submissions to > europython@python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > europython-requ...@python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > europython-ow...@python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of EuroPython digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Lack of diversity within selected talks (Nicholas H.Tollervey) > 2. Re: Lack of diversity within selected talks (Filip K??bczyk) > 3. Re: Lack of diversity within selected talks (Hynek Schlawack) > 4. Re: Lack of diversity within selected talks (M.-A. Lemburg) > 5. Re: Lack of diversity within selected talks (Roberto Polli) > 6. conference length (Martijn Faassen) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 13:37:22 +0100 > From: "Nicholas H.Tollervey" <nt...@ntoll.org> > To: europython@python.org > Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks > Message-ID: <534d2802.1050...@ntoll.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Yes! > > On 15/04/14 10:28, Lynn Root wrote: > > - limit speakers to only give one talk. > > +100000000 > > Perhaps too late for this year, but I wish this were the case for > every conference. > > N. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTTSgBAAoJEP0qBPaYQbb6rTMH/jXoNASEOMlom5zqmB9LXBAe > YRv73cj/QDzo3HHhotgsS7A7v+tq4CtkP+/1vPlA9Nbu5SgdMW1HzUgFlAIfQK/2 > PfM8yRYFjE7XCiWVWEMIig/ndkNZgKkpXq7ZuwDqtx3JBvCYCBtMrKpRNIVNAZIT > kCVZzo8hEaI0uMyICC3Ebrn5hpwOUgxdbtmQgo3SZl0RAQVrcaIh+sNe1+Sawguy > lZFwU4HN+r9cpLVe38m1K3kVFKRSB2dCtIplO5ksmNO1keyRlWpRIB6JooViAzc9 > IZhtorTpMiJO7Elt9zJCzvjBWoCQD6uRJ7w2y6Q4A8mLngoYX2KW+Ql1wSHZBW4= > =k/2s > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 14:53:32 +0200 > From: Filip K??bczyk <fklebc...@gmail.com> > To: europython lists <europython@python.org> > Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks > Message-ID: <534d2bcc.4020...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > W dniu 15.04.2014 14:32, Andreas Jung pisze: > > > > At least for the last EuroPython in Florence you could vote for talks > > (can not recall if you could see the speaker and its gender) > > you could see speakers data in EP2013 > > > - did it make > > a huge difference? > > The question is how many talks conducted by women are this year? I think > I've counted at least 1 from this years partial list that was published. > > Last year (after quickly checking EP2013 talk list; I might miscounted) > there were 4 such talks. > > Regards, > Filip > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 09:07:21 -0400 > From: "Hynek Schlawack" <h...@ox.cx> > To: europython@python.org > Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks > Message-ID: <65289e2e-e3f9-4479-bfde-49815eae2...@ox.cx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > On 15 Apr 2014, at 8:37, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > > > Yes! > > > > On 15/04/14 10:28, Lynn Root wrote: > >> - limit speakers to only give one talk. > > > > +100000000 > > > > Perhaps too late for this year, but I wish this were the case for > > every conference. > > First of all I?m glad that after the troubling discussion style in the > not so far past this sensitive topic is approached appropriately. The > consequences of having a diverse speaker roster go much farther than > that it looks good on paper. > > I think that blind reviews are problematic if you have an unleveled play > field and are trying to do something about that. The solution is to > accept one has certain biases and fight them instead of trying to avoid > them because that apparently took away a tool you could have used. > > *** > > That said, I don?t think it's too late. The conference is in July and > there?s a few things you can do: > > - Get a keynote speaker who is not a white dude. > - Having speakers have 3 slots is ridiculous, 2 should be a very rare > exception. So ask them which talk is more important and there you have > some free slots. > - Reach out to outreach groups. The most obvious one are our PyLadies > but there are more: http://www.callbackwomen.com/reach-out.html Tell > them our blind audition resulted in a roster you?re unhappy with and > we?re trying to fix it. Let some special committee review those > proposals. Keep a few slots free for them and just mark them TBD if you > need to get it out to print. > - And finally walking the walk: my talk is still in the queue and I will > happily retract my proposal if it helps to have a more diverse > conference. I have no interest to be part of an all-male schedule > anyway. > > Cheers and good luck, > Hynek > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 15:19:52 +0200 > From: "M.-A. Lemburg" <m...@europython.eu> > To: Markus Zapke-Gr?ndemann <markusza...@gmx.net>, > europython@python.org, Lynn Root <l...@lynnroot.com> > Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks > Message-ID: <534d31f8.1060...@europython.eu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > If it helps, I'd happily free up this slot in the selected talks > list (https://ep2014.europython.eu/en/event/schedule/): > > 43 - Embedded Devices - Marc-Andre Lemburg - Home Automation with Kivy, > Raspberry Pi and MQTT > > and perhaps do the talk as open space session, if there's interest. > > BTW: This talk entry: > > 56 - Other - Marc-Andre Lemburg - EuroPython 2015 - Let's build it together > > is not me, but the EuroPython Society. I just entered it on the EPS' > behalf and at the request of Mike M?ller. Those "talks" are only > organizational ones, which probably just got into the review by > mistake. > > Thanks, > -- > Marc-Andre Lemburg > Director > EuroPython Society > http://www.europython-society.org/ > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 15:19:42 +0200 > From: Roberto Polli <roberto.po...@babel.it> > To: europython@python.org > Cc: Lynn Root <l...@lynnroot.com> > Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks > Message-ID: <9513994.k1tEICTjXv@rpolli> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi @all, > > On Tuesday 15 April 2014 02:28:50 Lynn Root wrote: > > For those of you who do not know me.. > Everybody.py knows you, Lynn! > > > - talk selection was/is being done blindly, as in no identifying > > information about the speaker is revealed > > -#2 there are very little women on that preliminary talk list slated to > > speak > > -#3 there are multiple selected speakers slated to give multiple selected > > talks > > > If you do not find a problem with item #2 and #3, please read this > > article [1] about importance of diversity in a technical field. > I agree diversity (of speakers/subjects) is a value, in every declination > (we're not only our gender). > > I'm sure Guido van Rossum and Alex Martelli could have send ten (all award > winning) talks. But a two-rockstar conference doesn't mean a better > conference for the community. > > I think the committee consider that, and made their choice. > > > Here are my suggestions to rectify this issue: > > - limit speakers to only give one talk. Yes this means going back on the > > original acceptance. > imho we could gently ask to the selected speakers to give away one or more > talk in favor of the others: limiting the talks to one is unfair at the > moment. And I'm sure that we'll reach the same aim without forcing out > anybody. > > > - reopen CfP and reach out to PyLadies globally to help get the word > > out. As one of the main leaders of the global organization, I know this > > did not happen originally. > Not entirely fair, even for ladies awaiting for the final schedule. > I agree instead to set gender quotas (eg. 40% minimum for the > less-represented > gender). But imho rules should be set *before* the review process. > > > - re-review the talks. Give preference or help for those who would be > > first time speakers. > Agree to some precedence to first-time speakers and grow our community. > > > ..create general availability during the time that the CfP is reopened > > to help those who want it craft a good proposal. > imho again: reopening is unfair towards people who made their homework ;) > During the review process, author had all the time to browse all proposals > and > fix their one. > > > ... the blind selection ... the result is troubling... > Identifying authors won't have changed anything, but in any case I'm on the > full-disclosure side. > > > But this email is to address what I feel needs to change. > Thx for writing! Your contribution is always a precious spark! > > Peace, > R. > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/06/technology/technologys-man-problem.html?_r > > =0 _______________________________________________ > > EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July > > EuroPython mailing list > > EuroPython@python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > > -- > Roberto Polli > Community Manager > Babel - a business unit of Par-Tec S.p.A. - http://www.babel.it > T: +39.06.9826.9651 M: +39.340.652.2736 F: +39.06.9826.9680 > P.zza S.Benedetto da Norcia, 33 - 00040 Pomezia (Roma) > > CONFIDENZIALE: Questo messaggio ed i suoi allegati sono di carattere > confidenziale per i destinatari in indirizzo. > E' vietato l'inoltro non autorizzato a destinatari diversi da quelli > indicati > nel messaggio originale. > Se ricevuto per errore, l'uso del contenuto e' proibito; si prega di > comunicarlo al mittente e cancellarlo immediatamente. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 15:04:50 +0200 > From: Martijn Faassen <faas...@startifact.com> > To: europython@python.org > Subject: [EuroPython] conference length > Message-ID: <lijapi$ttu$1...@ger.gmane.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi there, > > I thought I'd give my preferences for conference length in the future. > It's just my point of view, but I had it for a while now, and I figure > I'd better share it to be more constructive. > > For some years, EuroPython was 3 days of conference, with perhaps 3 or 4 > parallel tracks with talks. From what I recall from the early days, we > got about as many talk submissions as we had talk slots available. > > At some point a few training days got tacked on to the beginning. We > also gained a tradition of sprints before or after the conference, later > on getting established at the end, where I think they should be. I > myself greatly enjoy sprints as an opportunity to get to know people > better and work with them. > > In the last few years EuroPython grew to a conference with many more > parallel tracks, and more days of conference proper. 5 or so. And then > sprints. > > I haven't been to EuroPython for a few years for other reasons. But when > I peeked at the massive and long schedule I did feel rather intimidated. > It feels a bit too much like a marathon to me. I prefer my conference to > be shorter. I also feel such a long conference risks diluting the talks > anyone finds interesting over a longer period, making the whole > experience less inspiring. And while I enjoy the hallway track, I prefer > doing sprints. > > I take it the training sessions got spread into the main conference and > that's why it's longer. But I wonder whether the ballooning schedule is > also because the amount of talk submissions went up, and following the > pattern of accepting as many submitted talks as possible like we used to > have, the conference felt it had to grow to more days and more slots > too. If this is so, I think we should consider whether this is the right > response to more talk submissions, or whether a better response is to > simply reject more talks. > > I think this relates to the discussion on diversity of talks. On the > preliminary schedule, quite a few speakers have two accepted talks, or > even three. For a more inspiring conference, I'd prefer to see more > different speakers, more viewpoints, not the same speaker multiple > times, however good they may be, and however interesting the topic. > > Perhaps an exception can be made if a particular category of > submissions, like trainings, don't get enough submissions otherwise, but > if submissions > talk slots, I think 1 accepted talk per speaker is a > good idea. To avoid people gaming the system to increase their chances > they're accepted, perhaps 1 *submitted* talk per speaker would be a good > idea too. > > For even more diversity of topics, throw in more wild card talks too > that are only peripheral to Python, and not just for the keynote > speeches. To me that's more inspiring. (I haven't studied the schedule > in detail yet though, so it's possible they're there) > > I was told by @europython on Twitter I wasn't required to show up for 5 > days of talks. I can make my own, shorter conference. So do I cut off > the beginning or the end? I'd prefer the sprints, so I guess I should > show up in day 3? What if a talk I submitted gets scheduled to day 2, > though? Or if I actually prefer seeing the talks on day 1 and 2? Now I > have to make those difficult choices myself. > > Nobody has to care about what I want of course if it's just me. But > perhaps I'm not the only one. And maybe bits of my analysis make sense > to others. Nobody will find out if nobody talks about it, so that's why > I did here. > > Thanks for doing all the hard work in organizing this; I know it's not > easy. > > Regards, > > Martijn > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > > > ------------------------------ > > End of EuroPython Digest, Vol 115, Issue 4 > ****************************************** >
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