EV Digest 2399

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: RAV4 EV purchase
        by "Reinhard, Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) RE: Evercels available, quote from SEC
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  3) RE: Caution: Re: Hardware for regen/dynamic braking set up?
        by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: RAV4 EV purchase
        by "Bruce Tucker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: It's Dead, Jim...or is it?
        by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Evercel MB80 price
        by Phil Bardsley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Hardware for regen/dynamic braking set up?
        by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EV digest 2393
        by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Charger help.
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Evercel group buy?
        by fred whitridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Evercels available, quote from SEC
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Charger help.
        by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: Evercels available, quote from SEC
        by Neil Wicai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: NEDRA Sacramento Event Covered by TechTV
        by Darryl Umale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Evercels available, quote from SEC
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Charger help.
        by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Evercel MB80 price, comments
        by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Evercel MB80 price, comments
        by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Hardware for regen/dynamic braking set up? How about motor?
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Evercels available, quote from SEC
        by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Evercel group buy?
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 22) Re: It's Dead, Jim...or is it?
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) RE: NEDRA Sacramento Event Covered by TechTV
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 24) Re: Evercel MB80 price
        by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Ford Think---- ZAP Think??
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) RE: NEDRA Sacramento Event bound
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: EVLN(Hey Saddam! Kiss My Gass, Who said EVs can't go fast?)
        by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: Measuring voltage during charging
        by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: Charger help.
        by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Try posting this question to the Rav4 Ev group on Yahoo at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:RAV4_EV@;yahoogroups.com> 
You will have to become a member to view the answers 
Rick 


        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Victor Tikhonov [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
        Sent:   Wednesday, October 30, 2002 4:58 PM
        To:     ev
        Subject:        RAV4 EV purchase

        All, but mainly Californians,

        I have a European customer asking is it possible for him to
        buy a RAV4 EV from California resident. Registering overseas is
        his concern, CA tax rebate is paid back to state if required.

        If disassembling far enough to be a kit car required, this is
        acceptable to.

        Money aside, the question is is it legally possible for the
        owner to sell his own thing to whoever he wants to outside
        US (and return CA rebate of course).

        What options Euro customer has to get RAV4 EV at all?

        Thank you for opinions (I realize they are not legal advises).

        Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Linda,

Check out the updates on http://www.evercel.com/manufacturing.html
MB80-12-8   L=10.24", W=5.82", H=7.88", Wt=36.4lb, Cap=64Ah

Wonder what their quantity pricing might be.
144v system:
12 batteries = $3996 plus shipping
   437 lb pack (96 lb saved over YTs)
24 batteries (buddy pair) = $7892 plus shipping
   874 lb pack (192 lb saved over YTs)

-Ed T

-----Original Message-----
From: Adams, Lynn [mailto:ladams@;ball.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:22 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Evercels available, quote from SEC


Following is a response to my request for a quote for the Evercel MB70-12.
I like the MB70 12 because they are the largest size which have nearly the
same footprint (L=10.2', W= 6.65", H=7.0", Weight=30.1 pounds), as the US
battery 8VGC or the Trojan T845 or the Optima.

Perhaps my next pack will be Evercels.

Lynn


 
Thank you for your enquiry.
The capacity of this battery has been increased and is thus now called the
MB80-12 and will be available for shipment in about 6 to 8 weeks.

The cost per battery is US$333.00 ex Hong Kong and the cost of shipping to
the USA is about 10% of the battery cost.
If a full pallet of 80 pcs were to be ordered we would include the shipping
cost.

Please let me know if you need any more information.


Kind Regards
Brian M Harper
SEC Industrial Battery Co.

For more information please visit SEC "On the Web" at www.secbattery.com

Please visit SEC at the ITU Telecom Conference and Exhibition Hong Kong - 2
to 7 December 2002
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

        >
        >> I wonder, if somehow you can use body panels as "resistors"?
        >> May be make them (or parts of them) from appropriate material.
        >> They will be cooled off by oncoming air....
        >
        >Now that's a scary thought! Both electrically live and flaming hot!
        >-- 
        >Lee A. Hart                Ring the bells that still can ring
        >814 8th Ave. N.            Forget your perfect offering
        >Sartell, MN 56377 USA      There is a crack in everything
        >leeahart_at_earthlink.net  That's how the light gets in - Leonard
Cohen

Speaking of flames, how about creating a flame shaped plasma light like
those plasma balls.  The more power, the more flame.  real electrical flame
instead of painted flames.  That would be cool looking.  
There must be some coating material that would change color with temp or
electrical charge.  You could have a car of another color. ;D

        Steve Paschke
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I have a European customer asking is it possible for him to
> buy a RAV4 EV from California resident. Registering overseas is
> his concern, CA tax rebate is paid back to state if required.

> Victor

I can't see any problem at the California end of the transaction due to the
California rebate.  The ghost buyer would just not apply for the California
rebate.  I would suggest that you find an existing RAV4EV owner to be the
ghost buyer, since you would then avoid the expense and time delays of
charger installation.

On the subject of the California ZIP I ($9000 -- 3years @$3000).  ZIP I ends
at the end of this year, (to be replaced by the $5000 ZIP II) and due to the
time delay of RAV4EVs charger installation if you don't order it by
November, Toyota may not issue the VIN number in time to apply for it. Also,
the money is running out so there is an extra step involved.  You must apply
for allocation of the money to make sure it is there when you complete your
purchase.

Bruce Tucker

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 30 Oct 2002 at 10:44, John Wayland wrote:

> and a Rabbit
> conversion (now living somewhere on the east coast, I think).

Actually, it's living near here.  I've met it, through my gasser's mechanic, 
of all things.  About 2 years ago, it was sitting in the back of his shop, 
waiting for him to find time to fit a couple of replacement Optimas.

He told me the owner's name -- it was one of the local "folkie" musicians.  
I keep meaning to contact the owner, but haven't quite made the time to do 
so.  Kind of like my gasser's mechanic.  He tends to have lots of long-term 
projects, too.  <g>

I was impressed -- it was a very neatly done conversion (though I probably 
would have put the Todd DC:DC somewhere a little less damp).  My 
compliments.


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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lynn,

I called the Evercel office in MA a couple days ago and was quoted a
price for the MB80 of $240 each for quantities of 20 or more. They
wouldn't tell me when the batteries would be available. I didn't ask
about shipping, since that price was a show stopper for me. I'm getting
Optimas instead.

>Following is a response to my request for a quote for the Evercel MB70-12.  I >like 
>the MB70 12 because they are
>the largest size which have nearly the same footprint (L=10.2', W= 6.65", >H=7.0", 
>Weight=30.1 pounds), as the US
>battery 8VGC or the Trojan T845 or the Optima.

>Perhaps my next pack will be Evercels.

>Lynn


 
>Thank you for your enquiry.
>The capacity of this battery has been increased and is thus now called the
>MB80-12 and will be available for shipment in about 6 to 8 weeks.

>The cost per battery is US$333.00 ex Hong Kong and the cost of shipping to
>the USA is about 10% of the battery cost.
>If a full pallet of 80 pcs were to be ordered we would include the shipping
>cost.

>Please let me know if you need any more information.


>Kind Regards
>Brian M Harper
>SEC Industrial Battery Co.
-- 
Phil Bardsley
Carolina Population Center
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
919-966-2825
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have enjoyed the conversation on racing braking / regen.

An off-the-wall idea: Use regen to make steam jets that point
upwards. This will increase downforce on the car, allowing later
braking and higher cornering speeds.

Another variant on this idea: Have ground effects that nearly touch
the ground all the way around the car. Use fans to suck air from
under the car and expel it upwards. This would "suction cup" the car
to the ground.

If you can generate 256 kW of braking regen, that could generate alot
of downforce! It is also neat the more regen, the more downforce you
could produce, so the tires get more bite -- kind of a slow form of
antilock.

Of course, this has to be weighed against (ha ha pun) the extra
weight issues.

Just a quick calculation:

P = fv = mav (Power = force * velocity = mass * acceleration *
velocity)

a = P / (mv)

a = 256 kW / (1500 kg * 50 mph) = 7.7 m/s^2 ~ 0.8 g

So at 50 mph, 256 kW of regen makes at most 0.8 g of stopping, so
you'll be using mechanical brakes, too.

Downforce is what really separates the men from the boys in racing.
Most everything is a few % kind of thing -- lowering the car, wider
tires, etc. In autocross is it amazing how little more horsepower
helps. Downforce, on the other hand, can double your speed through a
corner, or allow you to brake in 1/2 the distance.

A question for the ProEV guys: My above calculation works for
accelerating, too. Throw in an 80% efficiency factor, and it implies
that AWD will help your acceleration below about 50 mph, but not
above -- the extra weight of AWD would actually hurt. This would be
great for autocross, as your web page says. What kind of speeds will
you hit for "closed circuit road racing"?

Another question, why not go with a limited slip diff, at least in
the rear? Is 3.9 the lowest gear you can get? I'd think that would be
good for about 150 mph at 10k rpm, way above autocross speeds. Neat
thing though, is you're still probably traction limited until about
40 mph. Might be a good car to run at the Salt Flats -- Silent
Thunder's record is "only" 133 mph.
 


=====


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 30 Oct 2002 at 21:30, Richard Bebbington wrote:

> So why do Brusa want 460 euros for one pump, plus taxes?!

To make a profit.  That might be how they've managed to stay in business all 
these years.  <g>


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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode?  See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest."  Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there insurance?  Usually thousand dollar items are insured.  UPS and
USPS always make good.  Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 11:33 PM
Subject: Charger help.


> Howdy All:
>
> I am having more grief than I can afford. I have a 'Rusco' battery
charger;
> I got it about a year and a half ago. I have been fortunate enough to use
it
> twice to recharge my 144v pack. The rest of the time it has been in
transit
> to and from Rusco because it would not work for me. I am not saying that
it
> was bad from the start but the shape it is in now makes it a non-issue.
The
> charger got mysteriously trashed (big time) in the shipping to Russ this
> last time and it is obviously only junk now. That is a 1000 bucks down the
> drain for 2 charges. We are not made of money and cannot afford to spend
> that kind of money for a zero return.
> I don't want to scrap my truck after all the work that has gone into
> building it, but if I can't solve my charger needs... I am using a bad boy
> to keep the pack up just enough not to freeze.
>
> The point is I need a charger that will work and keep working at a cost
that
> is affordable to someone with no money to throw away. I don't care about
the
> looks only the functionality.
>
> Any help will be truly appreciated.
> Thanks
> Tom
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>

Hi Lynn and others:

I would be interested in hearing whether there are others out there who might want to 
do a group buy of Evercel batteries.  Sounds like there are big advantages on the 
freight side per your message below.  i would be interested in 20 or so of the MB80's. 
 Am also advising a
highschool car which wants to race in the Tour de Sol and they might be interested in 
26 or more of some smaller footprint battery.  I am located in Connecticut and note 
that SEC Industrial's office in the USA seems to be in Pennsylvania;  so I would have 
a big preference
for an east coast delivery and this might help in discussions with SEC Industrial.  
Any other bulk purchase east coast buyers out there?

Also Sheer and Rich, might we bother you for a recap of your NiZn experiences to date? 
 And could you steer me to a date for the thread on that discussion here some weeks 
back so I could search the archive?

Fred Whitridge


>
> Subject: Evercels available, quote from SEC
> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:22:18 -0700
> From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Following is a response to my request for a quote for the Evercel MB70-12.  I like 
>the MB70 12 because they are the largest size which have nearly the same footprint 
>(L=10.2', W= 6.65", H=7.0", Weight=30.1 pounds), as the US battery 8VGC or the Trojan 
>T845 or the Optima.
>
> Perhaps my next pack will be Evercels.
>
> Lynn
>
>
> Thank you for your enquiry.
> The capacity of this battery has been increased and is thus now called the
> MB80-12 and will be available for shipment in about 6 to 8 weeks.
>
> The cost per battery is US$333.00 ex Hong Kong and the cost of shipping to
> the USA is about 10% of the battery cost.
> If a full pallet of 80 pcs were to be ordered we would include the shipping
> cost.
>
> Please let me know if you need any more information.
>
> Kind Regards
> Brian M Harper
> SEC Industrial Battery Co.
>
> For more information please visit SEC "On the Web" at www.secbattery.com


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can these batteries be put into any position or do they work best terminals
up?  Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:22 AM
Subject: Evercels available, quote from SEC


> Following is a response to my request for a quote for the Evercel MB70-12.
I like the MB70 12 because they are the largest size which have nearly the
same footprint (L=10.2', W= 6.65", H=7.0", Weight=30.1 pounds), as the US
battery 8VGC or the Trojan T845 or the Optima.
>
> Perhaps my next pack will be Evercels.
>
> Lynn
>
>
>
> Thank you for your enquiry.
> The capacity of this battery has been increased and is thus now called the
> MB80-12 and will be available for shipment in about 6 to 8 weeks.
>
> The cost per battery is US$333.00 ex Hong Kong and the cost of shipping to
> the USA is about 10% of the battery cost.
> If a full pallet of 80 pcs were to be ordered we would include the
shipping
> cost.
>
> Please let me know if you need any more information.
>
>
> Kind Regards
> Brian M Harper
> SEC Industrial Battery Co.
>
> For more information please visit SEC "On the Web" at www.secbattery.com
>
> Please visit SEC at the ITU Telecom Conference and Exhibition Hong Kong -
2
> to 7 December 2002
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 31 Oct 2002 at 1:33, Tom Martin wrote:

> The point is I need a charger that will work and keep working at a cost that
> is affordable to someone with no money to throw away. I don't care about the
> looks only the functionality.
> 

Are you using flooded batteries?  If so, buy four used 36 volt Lestronic 
golf car chargers and charge a quarter of the pack with each.  Call around 
and ask golf car dealers if they have any that have been orphaned by 36-48 
volt upgrades.  I've seen them on Ebay from time to time, too.

Lesters are just about bulletproof, which is why they're the standard in the 
golf car and industrial vehicle industry.  With some hunting I suspect you 
can get four of them for significantly less than $1000.

You might also be able to find two 72 volt Lesters.


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode?  See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest."  Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From the Evercell web site:

"Nickel-Zinc cells are charged in an upright position to allow proper
handling of the gases generated during the charging process."

Neil

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ev@;listproc.sjsu.edu] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:11 PM
To: Adams, Lynn; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Evercels available, quote from SEC


Can these batteries be put into any position or do they work best
terminals up?  Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:22 AM
Subject: Evercels available, quote from SEC


> Following is a response to my request for a quote for the Evercel 
> MB70-12.
I like the MB70 12 because they are the largest size which have nearly
the same footprint (L=10.2', W= 6.65", H=7.0", Weight=30.1 pounds), as
the US battery 8VGC or the Trojan T845 or the Optima.
>
> Perhaps my next pack will be Evercels.
>
> Lynn
>
>
>
> Thank you for your enquiry.
> The capacity of this battery has been increased and is thus now called

> the MB80-12 and will be available for shipment in about 6 to 8 weeks.
>
> The cost per battery is US$333.00 ex Hong Kong and the cost of 
> shipping to the USA is about 10% of the battery cost. If a full pallet

> of 80 pcs were to be ordered we would include the
shipping
> cost.
>
> Please let me know if you need any more information.
>
>
> Kind Regards
> Brian M Harper
> SEC Industrial Battery Co.
>
> For more information please visit SEC "On the Web" at 
> www.secbattery.com
>
> Please visit SEC at the ITU Telecom Conference and Exhibition Hong 
> Kong -
2
> to 7 December 2002
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tech TV ?

Im in S.F. with AT&T Digital Cable and (if Im correct
it's channel 294) has been blacked out for some
reason. 

I've waited a whole year to enter my Go-kart and
unfortunately I have work on Maui this weekend.

I guess I be patient and wait another 365 days.

I do hope someone will be kind and post some pictures
of the event.

Darryl Umale


--- "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Brilliant!  When this appears on air I can get
> someone to tape it
> for me, locally.  Looking forward to seeing pictures
> of you guys
> and your cars.
> 
> -- 
> Lesley Walker

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neil Wicai wrote:
> 
> >From the Evercell web site:
> 
> "Nickel-Zinc cells are charged in an upright position to allow proper
> handling of the gases generated during the charging process."
> 
This pretty much dictates to mount them right up, but oddly enough,
they can be discharged in any position (except up side down).
Not charged. Apparently gassing requiring upright position,
is not present during discharge.

Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If so, buy four used 36 volt Lestronic
golf car chargers and charge a quarter of the pack with each. Call around
and ask golf car dealers if they have any that have been orphaned by 36-48
volt upgrades. I've seen them on Ebay from time to time, too.
I picked up a 36 volt, 20 amp E-Z-Go charger for 70 bux. Been working great for 3 years. (So have my T-105s!!)

Lesters are just about bulletproof, which is why they're the standard in the
golf car and industrial vehicle industry. With some hunting I suspect you
can get four of them for significantly less than $1000.
yes, they are very tough. Mine arrived from the factory looking like it had been dropped from a significant hight onto a rock. It was damaged before it was shipped, not during shipping, but still worked just fine. It was not worth shipping the 100lb charger back, so I took the case off, undented it, and put it back together. Works great.

You might also be able to find two 72 volt Lesters.
if worst comes to worst, I you could get rid of 24 volts and find a used 120V lester for very little... better than tossing the whole truck!!

Seth


--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION

http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Bardsley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: evlist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 1:44 PM
Subject: Evercel MB80 price


> Lynn,
>
> I called the Evercel office in MA a couple days ago and was quoted a
> price for the MB80 of $240 each for quantities of 20 or more. They
> wouldn't tell me when the batteries would be available. I didn't ask
> about shipping, since that price was a show stopper for me. I'm getting
> Optimas instead.
>
> >Following is a response to my request for a quote for the Evercel
MB70-12.  I >like the MB70 12 because they are
> >the largest size which have nearly the same footprint (L=10.2', W= 6.65",
>H=7.0", Weight=30.1 pounds), as the US
> >battery 8VGC or the Trojan T845 or the Optima.
>
> >Perhaps my next pack will be Evercels.
>
> >Lynn
>
>   Hi All;

    Hmmm! If alota people are thinking of a pack of Evercells, 240 A pop
sounds reasonable, if they outlast the lead acids, and hold more juice, too.
Jury's still out on this one, I guess. Sheer? Ya still going 100 miles plus
in your Honda, no heating problens?

    Bottom line, here. If alot of Listers are interested in Evercells, maybe
we could get a "Fleet" discount, if we could find homes for several hundred?
BIG order, they being drop shipped across the USA. Maybe they would drop to
190 es in quantities of?? you'd think Evercell would be interested in this
market? Anybody from EVercell on here? I'm sure Rich uis working on a
charger for them?

    Just a few thoughts

    Bob         Thinking of my NEXT car
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:58 PM 10/31/2002 -0500, Bob Rice stated:
> I called the Evercel office in MA a couple days ago and was quoted a
> price for the MB80 of $240 each for quantities of 20 or more. They
> wouldn't tell me when the batteries would be available. I didn't ask
> about shipping, since that price was a show stopper for me. I'm getting
> Optimas instead.
Heck,  for $240 each, I'd like to get 13 of them.

--
John G. Lussmyer      mailto:Cougar@;CasaDelGato.Com
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
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Jeremy Maus wrote:
> 
> Can you modify your AC motor controller?

The warranty is void then.

> Burn the extra energy in the motor.  Drive the motor inefficiently when the
> battery voltage gets too high.  If it is liquid cooled you could upsize the
> motor radiator.
> 
> Maybe you could even use an external circuit to put a DC current on the
> motor coils.
> 
> Correct me please.

It will overheat very quickly.

Victor
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Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> 
> Can these batteries be put into any position or do they work best terminals
> up?  Lawrence Rhodes.....

> >
Best terminals up not more that 60 Deg off vertical.

Not Sec I would get mine from Evercell proper.

I love them. Formulating Charge cycle. Seam to have a usefull one.
FORGET their chargers most fail, or are made for last years battereis.
They don't work. 

Keep the amps less than 300, life will be good. 
Getting them, Ummmm Not in volume yet in the use unless you want to buy
dozzens at a time.

Wait for the MB-100 8 cellers.  the 7 cell units have a working voltage
of about 9.5 to 11.0 or about 1 volt less than a Lead acid. AKA 14
batteries on a Raptor Not 13 should be your limit.
On the 8 Cells units, stay with 13 batteries per 156 volts of
controller.
 They sag 2 volts before belting out real amps. Soft!!!! EXPECT 12
cycles before they make close to thier published capacity.

YOU really need to beaware of these limitations. OR you will kill them
before you ever see thier potential.


They are coming..... Dunno know when. 
Even Evercell is having trouble publishing a charge cycle.


-- 
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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Does Evercell make large 6 volt NiZn in amphr capacity near equivalent to
Trojan T145s ?
Do they require individual chargers or can you recharge with a single
large charger as used on lead acid packs ?

On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:10:38 -0500 fred whitridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> >
> 
> Hi Lynn and others:
> 
> I would be interested in hearing whether there are others out there 
> who might want to do a group buy of Evercel batteries.  Sounds like 
> there are big advantages on the freight side per your message below. 
>  i would be interested in 20 or so of the MB80's.  Am also advising 
> a
> highschool car which wants to race in the Tour de Sol and they might 
> be interested in 26 or more of some smaller footprint battery.  I am 
> located in Connecticut and note that SEC Industrial's office in the 
> USA seems to be in Pennsylvania;  so I would have a big preference
> for an east coast delivery and this might help in discussions with 
> SEC Industrial.  Any other bulk purchase east coast buyers out 
> there?
> 
> Also Sheer and Rich, might we bother you for a recap of your NiZn 
> experiences to date?  And could you steer me to a date for the 
> thread on that discussion here some weeks back so I could search the 
> archive?
> 
> Fred Whitridge
> 
> 
> >
> > Subject: Evercels available, quote from SEC
> > Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:22:18 -0700
> > From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Following is a response to my request for a quote for the Evercel 
> MB70-12.  I like the MB70 12 because they are the largest size which 
> have nearly the same footprint (L=10.2', W= 6.65", H=7.0", 
> Weight=30.1 pounds), as the US battery 8VGC or the Trojan T845 or 
> the Optima.
> >
> > Perhaps my next pack will be Evercels.
> >
> > Lynn
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your enquiry.
> > The capacity of this battery has been increased and is thus now 
> called the
> > MB80-12 and will be available for shipment in about 6 to 8 weeks.
> >
> > The cost per battery is US$333.00 ex Hong Kong and the cost of 
> shipping to
> > the USA is about 10% of the battery cost.
> > If a full pallet of 80 pcs were to be ordered we would include the 
> shipping
> > cost.
> >
> > Please let me know if you need any more information.
> >
> > Kind Regards
> > Brian M Harper
> > SEC Industrial Battery Co.
> >
> > For more information please visit SEC "On the Web" at 
> www.secbattery.com
> 
> 
> 
> 


________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
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Hello to All,

"David Roden (Akron OH USA)" wrote:

> On 30 Oct 2002 at 10:44, John Wayland wrote:
>
> > and a Rabbit
> > conversion (now living somewhere on the east coast, I think).
>
> Actually, it's living near here.  I've met it, through my gasser's mechanic,
> of all things.  About 2 years ago, it was sitting in the back of his shop,
> waiting for him to find time to fit a couple of replacement Optimas....I was 
>impressed
> -- it was a very neatly done conversion (though I probably
> would have put the Todd DC:DC somewhere a little less damp).  My
> compliments.

Thanks for the info, and thanks for the compliment...very interesting! We had done that
car for a women here in Portland, then she moved and shipped it back to the east coast
somewhere, I think. It then went to a second buyer, who had contacted me about it years
ago, then after that, I lost track of it...wonder how it ended up in Ohio?

This was the last conversion E-Car did together, and it was especially painful for me 
as I
was unhappy with the workmanship, unhappy with some of the poor design decisions made, 
and
unhappy that I had to do much of the work under bad conditions. The usual stunning body
and paint work done by one of the partners, due to his own problems at the time, was
pretty sad on this car, and some of the metal work was subbed out around me and 
against my
wishes to someone other than Frank the Metal God, though Frank did do some of the work.
(the nicest looking metal parts). The best thing about the car was that killer XP-1263
high torque 8 inch motor.

See Ya.......John Wayland
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Darryl,

The next NEDRA EVent is in March at Las Vegas. Not so far
to go and a lot of fun!

Be sure you meet the requirements for running a go-kart.
Should have, at the very least, a rollbar, seat belt, snell 
rated helmet,long sleeved shirt, long pants, etc.  The faster 
the kart goes the more safety equipment would be expected. 

We'll try to put some pictures of the EVent up afterwards.

Rich Brown
Dualin'7  NEDRA SC/E and SC/D record holder




**********************************************************
I've waited a whole year to enter my Go-kart and
unfortunately I have work on Maui this weekend.

I guess I be patient and wait another 365 days.

I do hope someone will be kind and post some pictures
of the event.

Darryl Umale
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Phil Bardsley wrote:
I called the Evercel office in MA a couple days ago and was quoted a
price for the MB80 of $240 each for quantities of 20 or more. They
wouldn't tell me when the batteries would be available.
I'm relatively close to their office and MIGHT be interested in an 'East Coast Buy' IF these batteries would actually do me any good.

Just looking at the numbers, a set of 22 of the MB80's would fit right into my battery boxes for a total of 800 pounds (vs 1400 pounds for the floodeds). From what Rich said the nominal 264 volt pack would run more like 240 volts under load. Generously assuming the full 64 Ahrs at this voltage, and at a typical (for me) 350 Whr/mile, that gives a max range of 43 miles, and less if stopping at 80% DOD, allowing for winter driving etc. So pretty much the same as my floodeds.

So what's the big advantage to the Evercells? What am I missing? Where is my 100 mile range? Or would I need to cram in the same *weight* (1400 pounds) of Evercells as PbAs to get the 100 miles?

And for all that, if I read it right the Evercels are good for 500 cycles, or maybe two years, so not that much different than floodeds. A $20,000 Evercell battery pack every couple of years makes NiCads look cheap.

Also, although not deemed to be hazardous by the EPA, what exactly does one do with 22 dead Evercel batteries? Scrap yards are happy to take (and even pay a little) for my PbA's.

_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
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[Ref http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/message/31710 ]

chasfos [EMAIL PROTECTED] POSTed the ZAP bid. So I checked my 
news intray, yup!, I got nine versions of that piece yet to
be POSTed (I be scooped, that what I get for spending time to
prepare to drive my EV from Silicon Valley to Sacramento for 
the nedra.com Electric darg races). 

It will be interesting to see how much the media will play 
with this and try to make new news items by recycling the 
old one with added mis-information and opinions stated as 
facts.

The Think_EV group is already aware, and has a lively 
discussion on this
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/think_ev/messages 

 -Bruce



=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the EV ascci art above)
=====

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Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
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Today, I wired the 4 gauge cable to what I thought was the 
correct point on my pack (it read 132VDC) and connected my 
PFC-50 to it. The current did not read through my cruising
Control Emeter, and so I felt this was not right, and 
removed the cable. If it had worked, I could have pushed
max amps into my pack as I would have had the wiring to
handle 100+ amps (4 gauge cable and my existing wiring in
parallel).

Since I had all the battery boxes open, I used the 
opportunity to do my six month battery cable tightening. 
They were not loose, but the vibration had loosened them a 
little. This maintenance to check your battery cable 
tightness should down twice a year (especially if you 
are sticking your buns out their on Long in the Boonies 
trips).

Well, I only have to leave tomorrow and I will be on my way
to drive up to Sacramento using the Public EV charging with 
my PFC-50.

I am thinking my route will be counter to the traffic, to:

Fremont (Hwy 84: 25 miles but 30 energy miles), has 
a conductive evi mcs-600: two 14-50 40 amp circuits. I will 
use the PFC-50 and the Zivan NG5 in parallel to get 35 + 30= 
65 amps DC into my 132VDC pack at 150VDC. I should only need
to charge for 1 hr. then on to

San Ramon (Hwys 880-580-680: 31 miles, 45 energy miles), 
two evi mcs-100s 14-50 40 amps giving 65 amps for 3 hrs, 
then on to

Concord (Hwy 680: 15 miles, 20 energy miles), one evi 
ics-200 AVCON on the PFC-50 giving 35 amps at 150VDC for 2 
hrs, then on to

Vacaville (Hwy 80: 34 miles, 40 energy miles), one evi 
ics-200 AVCON on the PFC-50 giving 35 amps at 150VDC for 2 
hrs. I will find a motel to spend the night. In the 
morning I will go on to

Sacramento (Hwy 80-50: 45 miles, 47 energy miles), a 
whole wall of 14-50 40 amp and 5-20 outlets! Using my 
chargers the output would be (30 + 35 + 15 + 10 + 10=) 100 
amps, but will throttle back to just 75 amps because of 
internal charging wiring. Should be a 1.5 hrs charging 
time.

Sacramento Raceway (Hwy 80-50: 8 miles, 12 energy miles).
I might be able to mooch from the nedra gensets if they
are not using them.

I will use the reverse to get back home after the EVent.

ttfn :-zzz
: Crashing early :





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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the EV ascci art above)
=====

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
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Hey, now there's a thought - the sticker might persuade those
tailgaters to back off (which happens even at 5-10mph over).

Other temptation I've had would be to wire up a big mercury arc
lamp across the pack aimed out the rear window to sizzle the
tailgater's eyes with 40000W or so for a couple of seconds...
More mellow one would be to have a "Back Off!" light flash in the
rear window.  Tailgaters are one of my biggest beefs:  not only
do they present a collision hazard during a sudden stop (has
nearly happened several times), they are a big distraction in the
rear view mirrors.

Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Hey Saddam! Kiss My Gass, Who said EVs can't go
fast?)


> [ ref http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/message/31635 ]
>
> I am thinking of printing one of:
>
> Saddam: Kiss My Amps!!!
>
> Perhaps it will inform the SUV drivers that sniff my rear
> that they do not own the right lane and just pass.
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the EV ascci art above)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
> http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
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Steve,

It's conceivable that you have an imbalanced battery pack, and
you are hearing SOME of the batteries/cells gassing.  Have you
done a walkabout of the pack with your voltage meters?  Gassing
in a lead-acid cell begins once the cell is above 2.35V
(temperature does matter), so 7.05V for a 6V battery and 14.10V
for a 12V battery.

Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html

----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: Measuring voltage during charging


> Chuck,
> Thanks for the reply. My concern is that I'm not sure what the
charging
> voltage. When I'm at what I believe to be 87 volts, I hear some
pretty
> serious bubbling going on. I'm new to this but I would have
expected less
> bubbling at that voltage.
>
> Steve
>
> In a message dated 10/29/2002 6:26:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
> >
> > My cheapo $7 Cen-Tech digital voltmeter produces funky DC
voltage
> > readings when the CanPulse unit is pulsing my pack (96V).
The
> > Chicago Scientific $20 meter (no true-RMS claim) doesn't seem
to
> > have a problem with it.  My Radio Shack $80 true-RMS meter I
> > don't recall whether I've tried it with the CanPulse going.
> >
> > Chuck Hursch
> > Larkspur, CA
> > www.geocities.com/nbeaa
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
> >
>
>
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Should verify that the K&W will do a 144V pack with a booster (I
seem to have some recollection that it was 120V, but could
definitely be wrong).

Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 11:33 PM
Subject: Charger help.


> Howdy All:
>
> I am having more grief than I can afford. I have a 'Rusco'
battery charger;
> I got it about a year and a half ago. I have been fortunate
enough to use it
> twice to recharge my 144v pack. The rest of the time it has
been in transit
> to and from Rusco because it would not work for me. I am not
saying that it
> was bad from the start but the shape it is in now makes it a
non-issue. The
> charger got mysteriously trashed (big time) in the shipping to
Russ this
> last time and it is obviously only junk now. That is a 1000
bucks down the
> drain for 2 charges. We are not made of money and cannot afford
to spend
> that kind of money for a zero return.
> I don't want to scrap my truck after all the work that has gone
into
> building it, but if I can't solve my charger needs... I am
using a bad boy
> to keep the pack up just enough not to freeze.
>
> The point is I need a charger that will work and keep working
at a cost that
> is affordable to someone with no money to throw away. I don't
care about the
> looks only the functionality.
>
> Any help will be truly appreciated.
> Thanks
> Tom
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