EV Digest 2483

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) CARB Workshop Audio Files now available online
        by "Bruce Tucker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Charging
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  3) Re: OT mileage computers Re: Water drag eats ahs
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  4) OT: Book Review - Bumper Mentality (SUVs)
        by John Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Charging
        by John Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: heated seat cushion?
        by Andrew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: SAFT NiCads, Charging
        by "Ralph Merwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) EVLN(Segway's SF Setback)
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) EVLN(Amazon Sells Segway 3/03)
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) EVLN(Hart County High School 86 Pulsar conversion)
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) EVLN(Keep your EV addiction on a short leash)
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) EVLN(Jobs: hybrid design engr; Ebike & golf car techs)-long
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: used EV values
        by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: heated seat cushion?
        by "VanDerWal, Peter MSgt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: liquid heater tanks
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Perfect High-Dollar EV
        by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: CARB Workshop Audio Files now available online
        by "Mark Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) EV charging, tax deductible donations
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The audio files that I created from the web broadcast of the December 5th
CARB ZEV Mandate Workshop are now available online at
http://www.socalev.com/Main_Frame/december_5.htm . This page has a list of
files, the length, and the general topic and/or speaker list. If you click
on the file name it will open your media player and start streaming the

The speaker list is not complete, and or completely accurate.  Any
corrections/additions would be appreciated.

Thanks goes to Joseph Vaughn-Perling   [EMAIL PROTECTED] for putting
them on his server.

Bruce Tucker
Ventura County - EAA
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--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 15/12/02 17:40:29 GMT Standard Time, 

 >If this worked on Optimas, they probably would have specified it
 >as it is easier to implement. I think they may have carefully picked the 2
> amp number.

We come back to my earlier point, the recommended algorithm is about getting 
the battery charged as quickly as possible. The 2 amp equalise takes 1 hour, 
the long hold at (or preferably from my 'experience' just below) gassing 
voltage seems to take 6-10 hours. They have picked the 2 amp number as the 
highest 'safe' recombination current. 

If I hold my pack at 14.5 volt per block for 8 hours or so, I can then get it 
to 16.5 volt per block with just 200mA.

Paul Compton
BVS technical officer www.bvs.org.uk
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--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 15/12/02 18:19:52 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

>> [Since Automakers are taking good ideas from EVs to add to their ICE
>>  hybrids, rather than 1.5 mpg increase, wouldn't it be better to
>>  add a digital mpg read-out in the dash cluster?]

>I think it's been proven that such a thing would decrease fuel consumption. 

They certainly can!

The RAC conducted a survey of drivers and found that their fuel consumption 
could be reduced by 30% on average by changing their driving style. This did 
not mean driving slower!

I remember travelling with a friend in a Rover 827 (2.7 Honda V6) with 
slushbox and 200,000 miles on the clock. He was talking about disposing of 
the car because of the fuel consumption, but it was very useful for towing 
duties. I flipped through the settings on the fuel computer and put 
instantaneous fuel consumption up on the display. He was able to see how much 
difference throttle position during acceleration made to fuel consumption, 
but how little difference it actually made to acceleration. By changing his 
driving style he halved his fuel consumption. He also got comments about how 
smooth his driving was.

Paul Compton
BVS technical officer www.bvs.org.uk
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--- Begin Message ---
This is a very informative book review, filled with useful facts
and enlightening psychological profiles. You know it's going to 
be good when the first sentence is:

> Have you ever wondered why sport utility vehicle drivers 
> seem like such assholes?

The review seeks to answer tough questions such as this 
and many other good questions as well.


Bumper Mentality
A review of Keith Bradsher's High and Mighty: SUVs

By Stephanie Mencimer
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--- Begin Message ---

Paul C. wrote:

> We come back to my earlier point, the recommended algorithm is about getting
> the battery charged as quickly as possible.

> They have picked the 2 amp number as the
> highest 'safe' recombination current.

        I'm sure you are correct, they want to safely charge the battery
as quickly as possible.

 > If I hold my pack at 14.5 volt per block for 8 hours or so, I can then get it
> to 16.5 volt per block with just 200mA.

        It's great to hear that there is someone else, and someone who I
respect highly, who charges their batteries in the way that I do. I take this
method to it's extreme. I hold them at 13.8 - 14.0 Volts per block for 
anywhere from 24 - 48 hours, before conducting the finish charge.

David Roden wrote, comparing 192 Volts - Optimas, to 180 Volts - nicads:

> Maybe not quite what he has with brand-new Optimas, but the 
> nicads should still be delivering about the same performance 5 years from 
> now, which isn't likely with the Optimas, unfortunately.

        I have to admit that Dave is probably right. Thinking back on the
times I blasted down Broadway at 90 mph...racing teenagers, and routinely 
driving over steep hills in the countryside to nighboring towns with frozen 
batteres, 27-28 mile round trip....was when they were only 4 years old.
By the time they reached 5, I started to notice that they were getting softer
and that range was dropping off a bit. Over a year later, they seem to be
doing very well, but that was after I put them on an 18 amp charge, then
untintentiaonally went off to sleep while they replaced the 10 Ah they were 
down, plus that much again on top of that! Blazing hot batteries, but none 
of them vented.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Subject: Re: liquid heater tanks
>   Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 13:14:06 -0800
>   From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>A 50W seat cushion works fine for my tush and
>keeps me warm for a lot less energy than the 1300W cabin heater.

I'd like to know what you are using for a seat cushion and where you
found it.
My car has heated front seats but the 7 year old in back is feeling left

Andrew King
Ann Arbor Michigan
technology is the answer, what was the question?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ralph Merwin writes:
> Joe Smalley writes:
> > 
> > The links to SAFT on that page are not working for me. Do they work for you?
> I can pull these files onto my site this evening if people are still having 
> problems.

I uploaded the SAFT PDF files to my webpage at

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Segway's SF Setback)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
 informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
 --- {EVangel}
 Investor's Business Daily
Segway Aims To Keep Rolling After San Francisco Setback
Thursday December 5, 10:36 am ET By Brian Deagon

The two-wheeled tech-powered electric scooter known as the
Segway Human Transporter hit its first speed bump last week
when city supervisors in San Francisco voted to ban it from

If Mayor Willie Brown does not veto the bill, which the
Board of Supervisors passed 8-2, San Francisco would be the
first city to prohibit on sidewalks what is arguably the
most-watched invention in a long time. Brown has three weeks
before he must decide.

The device's inventor, Dean Kamen, has expressed hope it
will "change the world for the better" by replacing cars in
crowded inner cities, thus cutting pollution and congestion.
It runs on batteries that recharge overnight, and can move
at a top speed of about 12 mph.

California is one of 32 states that have passed legislation
allowing the Segway on sidewalks. About half of those state
bills, including the one signed by California Gov. Gray
Davis this year, let local municipalities impose their own

If other cities follow San Francisco, it would be a big
setback for Segway LLC. The Manchester, N.H., company has
the facilities to produce tens of thousands of Segways a

"We are at a very interesting point in our company's
history," said Segway President George Muller. "We've done
the testing, creating demand and interest and awareness. Now
we have a chance to begin distribution in the consumer

The U.S. rollout will be followed in Europe and Asia.

"We're just at the beginning of wide-scale usage," he said.

The U.S. Postal Service, the National Park Service and
several airports and police departments have all tested the
Segway. It's also been tested at many large companies,
including General Electric Co., Boeing Co., Ford Motor Co.
and General Motors Corp.

For now, San Francisco has set up a roadblock.

"No other big city has taken this kind of action," said Matt
Dailida, Segway's director of state regulatory affairs. "We
think San Francisco is premature with this action. It would
be better public policy to base this decision on facts and
hard data, which they do not have."

When the product was unveiled a year ago, the biggest
unknown was how it would be classified and regulated by
local and state governments. The Segway is designed to
accommodate the average adult body and balances like a human
does. It can go almost anywhere a human can walk. Therefore,
the manufacturer reasons, Segway belongs on the sidewalk,
not on streets.

The only Segway accident that's been revealed was when a
postal carrier took a spill as he was moving from concrete
to gravel during a test in Florida.

Elderly Opposition

Critics say using the Segway in a factory, warehouse, or in
other wide-open spaces is not the same as riding it on a
crowded sidewalk. Forces that lined up to oppose the Segway
in San Francisco included groups for the elderly and for the
blind. Those groups also said it's a threat to pedestrians
with baby strollers.

"Pedestrian groups have taken notice and are now starting to
get mobilized," said Randall Henry, a consultant to the
California Senate Transportation Committee.

"We still don't know how many of these will be on
sidewalks," he said. "It could end up being more of a novel
conveyance for the affluent. But if it caught on, it could
result in problems on busy urban sidewalks."

The Segway is only now becoming available to the public. In
late November, Amazon.com Inc. began taking orders for them.
The devices, which cost $4,950, are available for delivery
in March.

"The initial response from early adopters is very strong,"
said Muller. "We've had thousands of inquiries from
consumers asking when it would be available."

Muller won't say how many orders the company has received or
how many Segways have been built. The largest known user is
the Postal Service. It bought 40 industrial versions, which
are larger, sturdier, faster than the pedestrian version,
and cost about twice as much.

The Postal Service has held six tests with mail carriers. It
conducted tests in balmy Florida, in the snows of New
Hampshire, in the heat of Arizona and on busy streets in New
York and San Francisco. The testing phase is over for now,
said Mark Saunders, a Postal Service spokesman.

"We will analyze the results and determine if more testing
needs to be done," said Saunders. He declined to discuss
results of testing done so far.

The Postal Service is a potentially huge customer for
Segway. It has 13,000 walking routes and 90,000
park-and-walk routes across the U.S. Mail carriers typically
lug a 40-pound bag on walking routes. The Segway can carry
up to 125 pounds of mail, stuffed into three satchels
mounted on the sides and front.

Several police departments have tested the Segway. The city
of Atlanta conducted a 60-day trial with six Segways. Segway
officials say tens of thousands of hours have been logged by
people in various city environments without a single

Laws Pending

In addition to the 32 states that have OK'd its use, another
six have legislation pending and two states - Colorado and
Mississippi - have no statewide ban on sidewalk use by
motorized vehicles.

In state government parlance, the Segway is classified as an
"electric personal assistive mobility device." It's defined
as a "self-balancing, nontandem, two-wheeled device that can
turn in place and designed to transport only one person" at
limited speed. Getting approval to ride the Segway on
sidewalks is the second major element of the company's

The first step, says Muller, was to establish relationships
with corporate and enterprise accounts, and uniformed

"Our purpose was to enter a community in a responsible way
rather than have rapid and broad distribution of our
product," he said. "We also wanted to see how people would
use Segway, and how they learned to ride it."

Test results among business owners sounds promising.

This past year, GE Plastics, in a press release issued by
Segway, said it completed a round of feasibility testing and
purchased 10 units for more tests. GE Plastics said initial
results showed "potential double-digit productivity gains,"
but did not specify how. At GE Plastics, maintenance
technicians, environmental testers and security personnel
were among those who used the devices.

And GTI Spindle Technology Inc., a machine tool maker,
announced a 12% productivity savings from its initial
evaluation in a Caterpillar Inc. plant. The Segway helped
maintenance workers cut an hour's time from inspection work,
the company said.

Also, a unit of Energy East Corp. plans to test the Segway
with its utility meter readers. "We have seen reports of
productivity gains of 12% to 20%," said Muller. "The range
of activity includes moving a security force around parking
lots and interiors, moving maintenance people, increasing
the area they can cover and saving time."

Many of the early trials have resulted in the permanent
adoption of Segway in these environments, says Muller,
though he declines to name them. "A lot of customers have
asked us not to disclose this information for competitive

The company is financed largely with venture capital. The
two largest partners, with investments of more than $76
million as of a year ago, are Kleiner Perkins Caufield &
Beyers and Credit Suisse First Boston.

Another major investor is inventor Kamen, who is best known
for designing a wheelchair able to climb stairs. The Segway
is a spinoff from that design, and uses elements of computer
power, software and gyroscopes to attain its unique

' ____
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. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)

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EVLN(Amazon Sells Segway 3/03)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
 informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
 --- {EVangel}
Amazon.com to Sell First Segway Human Transporters; Segway
Human Transporters Now Available to Consumers Exclusively At
Amazon.com On a First Come, First Served Basis

2002--Segway LLC and Amazon.com today
announced that, for the first time, consumers can now
purchase a Segway(TM) Human Transporter (HT) exclusively at

On a first come, first served basis, Segway HTs are now
available only at Amazon.com for delivery starting March
2003. This is the one opportunity to order the Segway HT to
assure delivery before August 2003. To purchase a Segway
Human Transporter, go to www.amazon.com and search for

Early Segway purchasers also have the opportunity to win
early delivery of their Segway HT before December 25 by
entering the Segway HT "Early Delivery Contest."

"Since the Segway HT was introduced nearly a year ago, tens
of thousands of people have asked how they can get one,"
said Dean Kamen, chairman of Segway LLC. "We are happy to
tell them that they can order one today!" Segway LLC's
decision to partner with Amazon.com "just makes sense," says
Kamen. "Who better to bring the first Segway HTs to the
public? Amazon.com is the world's largest Internet retailer,
trusted by its customers to deliver the hottest,
hard-to-find products. This venture with Amazon.com is a
great way to reward fans of both our companies."

Effective immediately, Amazon.com customers can order the
Segway Human Transporter, priced at $4,950, by placing a
$495 deposit. Delivery of the Segway HTs will start in March
2003 and continue through July 2003, on a first come, first
served basis. People who order now will also receive a
collector's item, hand-numbered print from Segway within
days of placing their order.

"Amazon.com has a large group of early-adopter customers who
constantly search out cool new products," said Jeff Bezos,
Amazon.com founder and CEO. "The Segway Human Transporter is
one of the most famous and anticipated product introductions
of all time, and we're very fortunate to have been chosen as
the exclusive place for consumers to buy the first Segway

After reserving a Segway HT, purchasers will be eligible to
enter the Segway HT "Early Delivery Contest." By following a
link in an email sent by Amazon.com after the order is
placed, interested customers can enter by describing in 75
words what they like most about the Segway HT. Thirty
winners will receive early delivery of their Segway HT
before December 25, 2002 and get to experience an insider's
view at Segway facilities in New Hampshire.

The Segway HT is the first self-balancing, personal
transportation device. The Segway HT uses the same space as
a pedestrian and was designed to operate safely on the
sidewalk or virtually anywhere a person can walk. The Segway
HT will allow people at home and at work to go farther, move
more quickly, and increase the amount they can carry. It has
a variety of uses such as commuting to work, enjoying the
community, running errands, crossing large campuses, or
navigating places where a car is unwieldy and impractical.

About Amazon.com
Amazon.com, a Fortune 500 company based in Seattle, opened
its virtual doors on the World Wide Web in July 1995 and
today offers Earth's Biggest Selection. Amazon.com seeks to
be the world's most customer-centric company, where
customers can find and discover anything they might want to
buy online at a great price. Amazon.com and sellers list
millions of unique new and used items in categories such as
apparel and accessories, electronics, computers, kitchenware
and housewares, books, music, DVDs, videos, cameras and
photo items, toys, baby items and baby registry, software,
computer and video games, cell phones and service, tools and
hardware, travel services, magazine subscriptions and
outdoor living items.

Amazon.com operates five international Web sites:
www.amazon.co.uk, www.amazon.de, www.amazon.fr,
www.amazon.co.jp and www.amazon.ca.

About Segway
Segway LLC is a Manchester, NH, based business founded by
renowned inventor and entrepreneur Dean Kamen to provide a
solution to short-distance travel. The company has created
the Segway(TM) Human Transporter (HT), the first
self-balancing, electric-powered transporter designed to
enhance the productivity of people by increasing the
distance they can travel and the amount they can carry. For
additional information about Segway, please visit
www.segway.com. Press releases and digital images are
available at Segway's press center at: www.segway.com/news.

This announcement contains forward-looking statements within
the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and
Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. Actual
results may differ significantly from management's
expectations. These forward-looking statements involve risks
and uncertainties that include, among others, risks related
to potential future losses, significant amount of
indebtedness, competition, strategic alliances and business
combinations, seasonality, potential fluctuations in
operating results and rate of growth, foreign-currency
exchange rates, management of potential growth, system
interruption, international expansion, consumer trends,
fulfillment center optimization, inventory, limited
operating history, government regulation and taxation, fraud
and Amazon.com Payments, and new business areas. More
information about factors that potentially could affect
Amazon.com's financial results is included in Amazon.com's
filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission,
including its Annual Report on Form 10-K for the year ended

CONTACT: Amazon.com Kristin Schaefer, 206/266-7180
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or Segway LLC Carla Vallone,
603/222-6200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] SOURCE:  Amazon.com 11/18/2002

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. (originator of the above ASCII art)

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EVLN(Hart County High School 86 Pulsar conversion)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
 informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
 --- {EVangel}
Future evolving in dusty High School auto shop 

In the back of the auto shop at Hart County High School sits
a dusty 1986 Nissan Pulsar.

It?s not much to look at; in fact, it doesn?t really compare
favorably to the other cars being worked on in the shop.

But, it may be the future of automotive transport as we know

That 1986 Nissan Pulsar, complete with T-tops, is on its way
to becoming a fully electric car. It has been equipped with
an electric motor, and a housing in the back of the car
awaits four batteries.

The car is the most ambitious aspect of an electric vehicle
program that began last year at Hart County High School.
Electric cars are touted by many as being the future of car
travel because of their environmental friendliness.

Because they do not burn gasoline, electric cars do not
produce nearly as many harmful emissions as gas-burning

It?s what the future is going to be,? said Chris Wilson, a
student involved in the electric car program.

Five students in the program participated recently in the
fifth Georgia Electric Vehicle Rally, held Nov. 21-22 at
Lanier National Speedway in Braselton. They brought home a
second-place trophy in the troubleshooting competition, in
which they had seven minutes to identify a specific problem
with an electric vehicle.

The team also made an oral presentation, took a written
test, participated in a quiz bowl and went through several
on-track events, testing acceleration and endurance of the

The Hart County team competed in the EV Master Teaching
Vehicle category. In that category, teams construct a
vehicle, similar to a go-cart, from a pre-fabricated kit.

Hart County students have constructed two cars, one with one
engine and another with two; they used the two-engine
vehicle in the rally.

According to Wilson, the two-motor car is better for
acceleration, but the single-engine model is actually faster
and more efficient because it requires less power.

Charles Pace, a physics teacher who helped with the science
aspects of preparing for the competition, said technology is
continually improving for electric cars.

The technology is there? for converting most automotive
traffic to electric, he said. ?The problem is being able to
convince auto makers to change.?

Auto makers, though, are not the only ones who will need to
be convinced of the merits of electric cars. Batteries that
can last several hundred miles and be recharged in several
minutes are still being developed.

For now, those wishing to buy electric cars must accept
their relatively short range (although some can go up to 150
miles on a charge) and somewhat extended recharge time.

Wilson said he hopes Hart County?s electric vehicle program
will help convince people to make the switch to electric
cars. He said the cars are actually more convenient and
potentially easier to maintain than conventional cars.

According to Wilson, an electric motor has just one part,
while an internal-combustion engine has ?thousands? of
parts. Electric motors also do not require oil changes and
other such routine maintenance.

The students plan to continue working on the Pulsar, which,
when equipped with the necessary batteries, will be
completely street legal.

If our program will grow and spread, not just through the
state, but through the whole country, that may turn public
opinion,? Wilson said.

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EVLN(Keep your EV addiction on a short leash)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
 informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
 --- {EVangel}
Sacked official loses job battle
Dec 6 2002 By Fiona Scott

A top council boss accused of misusing an electric car has
lost his claim for wrongful dismissal against Coventry City

James Mullan, who now lives in Toronto, Canada, was sacked
for taking the car on private trips in 1999.

Yesterday an industrial tribunal at Birmingham ruled he had
been properly dismissed by the council.

The 50,000-a-year boss had never denied using the car for
private trips, but claimed he thought he was allowed to.

He also argued that, even if it was against the rules, it
was not gross misconduct and he should not have been

The tribunal had earlier heard Mr Mullan, who was assistant
director of economic regeneration, had used the car - one of
a pool supplied for a European Union environmental project -
during a week's holiday in June 1999 to visit Warwick,
Stratford and Solihull.

Three months earlier, the council had tightened its rules on
the use of council property after a scandal at Coventry
Contract Services where there were allegations of misuse of
council assets.

Tribunal chairman Alan McCarry said it was likely that the
atmosphere in the council would be one of "paranoia" and it
was inconceivable a senior officer like Mr Mullan would be
ignorant of the crackdown.

Mr McCarry said: "We are finding that this applicant (Mr
Mullan) was simply not frank with us when he said he'd heard
a bit about the CCS scandal and dismissed the lessons to be
learnt with: 'It came across my desk.'

"He must have known of the seriousness. There would have
been a culture of considerable fear at the time, possibly
almost of paranoia, of the need to be extra scrupulous.

"That sort of atmosphere could not possibly have escaped
anyone working at the applicant's level.

"That failure to be frank with us has an effect on his
evidence where it differs in some important instances from
evidence given by other employees."

He said the disciplinary hearing at which Mr Mullan was
sacked came to a "bona fide" decision.

He added: "Objectively, he knew what he was doing was wrong
and it amounted to a breach of trust and confidence."

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. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)

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EVLN(Jobs: hybrid design engr; Ebike & golf car techs)-long
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
 informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
 --- {EVangel}
US-MI-Rochester Hills-Controls Engineer

Title: Controls Engineer Requirement ID: CE-RH-2002402
Location: MI-Rochester Hills 
Placement Type: Contract

Our client is looking for a Controls Engineer for their
Rochester Hills location.

* 2-5 yrs OEM/ Tier One Automotive hybrid vehicle design
      experience in one of the following areas:

* High voltage power electronics, i.e. invertors, power
  supplies, etc.

* AC/DC motor technology and commutation techniques Hybrid
  vehicle specifications and operating characteristics.

* Control strategies for hybrid vehicles.
* Software implementation in hybrids.
* Good understanding of safe operating and handling
  procedures around high voltage.

* Hands-on build experience of components and sub-systems.
* Focus on manufacturability of sub-systems.

* Design, analysis, debug, of an associated area of expertise:
* Discrete power electronics to support hybrid vehicle builds.
* Motors, drives, and integration with controllers.
* Working with suppliers for vehicle sub-systems to complete
  vehicle builds, i.e. fuel storage, batteries, etc.

* Creation and upkeep of specification documents.
* Coordinate build activities internally and with suppliers.
* Conducting DV & PV testing, analyzing, and making
  recommendations/changes based on results.

* Coordinating suppliers activity through Purchasing
* Directing test engineers and technicians on specific projects.
* Develop objective evaluations for hybrid sub-systems.

Skills & Education:
* College Engineering degree, advanced Engineering degree

* Excellent oral and written communication skills.
* High level of analytical ability where problems are
  unusual and difficult.

* Knowledge of design, development, test engineering, and
  manufacturing processes.

* Ability to plan and organize effectively.
* Basic computer skills, including Word, Excel, Powerpoint, etc.

Visit our website for additional openings.
Additional Information
Position Type: Full Time, Temporary/Contract/Project, Employee
Ref Code: CE-RH-2002402
Contact Information
Chad Toms
RW Incorporated
Ph: (866) 490-9802
Fax: (810) 654-9222


US-VA-Dulles-Demonstration Technician for Electric Bicycles (S/R)

TidalForce, the Light Electric Vehicle Division of WaveCrest
Labs, is bringing the first product to market that uses the
revolutionary WaveCrest Adaptive Motor. Join the team that
will open a new chapter for transportation as the PC did for
information. This is an opportunity for a self-motivated
individual to join a growing company with a technological
advantage. This job is best suited for the individual that
has a competitive spirit, positive attitude, enthusiasm, and

You will be demonstrating and helping to sell TidalForce
light electric vehicles to security companies, and Federal,
municipal, state, and county law enforcement agencies.

- Ability to effectively demonstrate the attributes of our
  electric bikes

- Ability to effectively communicate with prospective buyers
  and users

- Have law enforcement or security background
- Ability to provide field technical support and do minor
  bike repairs

- Have strong presentation and organizational skills
- Ability to provide regular field reports
- Clean driving record
- Be a bike enthusiast!
- Must be available for overnight travel

Additional Information
Position Type: Full Time, Employee
Contact Information
Wavecrest Lab, LLC
45600 Terminal Drive
Dulles VA 20166


IFS-CC-Service Technician
Company: Ingersoll-Rand Company
Location: US-CA-Benicia
Base Pay: N/A
Employee Type: Full-Time Employee
Industry: Manufacturing
[Apply Online for This Job]
Job Type: Facilities
Skilled Labor - Trades
Required Education: High School
Required Experience: At Least 1 Year
Required Travel: Contact Company
Relocation Covered: No
Division: CC Club Car of IFS
Business Unit: CC Club Car of IFS

Sector: IFS-Infrastructure Sector

Club Car, a subsidiary of Ingersoll-Rand, is the leading
manufacturer of golf cars, transportation, and utility
vehicles. We have an excellent opportunity for a Service
Technician. This individual provides and performs mechanical
repairs to vehicles in inventory as well as at customer
locations. Maintains, troubleshoots and repairs vehicles as
required. Coordinates all activities with the location
Manager with input from the Technical Representative.
Reports any unusual service/technical problems to the
Technical Representative.

Principal Responsibilities: (Responsibilities listed may not
apply to Service Technicians at all locations.)

* Maintains the warehouse in a clean and orderly manner.
* Maintains the parts room in a clean and orderly manner,
  ensuring all parts are received and properly stored in a
  timely manner.
* Ships and coordinates delivery of parts with other
  in-house branch personnel as required
* Maintains all car trailers on regular basis.
* Operates company vehicle for the purpose of delivering and
  picking up fleet cars, trade-ins, and new / used cars.
  Responsible for maintaining all company owned commercial
  vehicle records ( mileage, maintenance, driving and
  inspection records ) in accordance with OSHA, Wheels Inc.
  and the Department of Transportation. Maintains Branch
  service vehicles and equipment i.e. Forklift, Trailers and
  Shop Tools and Machinery.
* Travels to the field as required for service work which
  may include, but not be limited to: installation and
  removal of canopy, cab assemblies and beverage units;
  installation and removal of number decals, club logos and
  pinstripe; removal and installation of 36 volt and 48 volt
  batteries; repair and maintenance of fleet, seasonal and
  annual demos as directed; assist at new car deliveries as
  required; directly responsible for maintaining accurate
  records of all service calls and physical repairs of all
  vehicles; transport vehicles from the branch inventory to
  golf courses, dealers or individuals and returns vehicles
  to branch facility when appropriate.
* Maintains location demos and used car inventory in a clean
  user-ready condition.
* Communicates in a professional and technical manner, both
  orally and in writing, with associates and customers.
* Performs all duties related to service parts/used
  cars/service department including ordering parts,
  inventory control, preparing delivery tickets, and pulling
  and packaging parts for shipment. Assists dealers with
  stock orders. Maintains record of back orders ensuring
  orders are expedited as soon as possible.
  Designs/implements parts/accessory volume promotions.
* Coordinates ordering, packaging, and shipping orders to
  customers with UPS, transportation, and other freight
  vendors. Verifies freight rates and re-bills customer, as
  appropriate. Maintains accurate records on a daily basis.
* Prepares/Reviews SRO's (Service Repair Orders) and
  Material Movement forms to ensure proper inventory control
  measures are maintained and to initiate billing of
  parts/services to customer.
* Maintains/Monitors accurate records for parts storage and
  inventory (locator system in the computer).

Formal Education, Experience, and Knowledge Standards:
High School Diploma or G.E.D. with minimum of one year of
experience as a mechanical/electrical mechanic working with
AC/DC electrical components, batteries and 2 and 4 cycle
gasoline engines. Prefer experience with both in-shop work,
field work, and working directly with customers. Knowledge
of AC/DC circuitry, internal combustion engine, 2 and 4
cycle gasoline engine and gear train operations, maintenance
and repair techniques. Knowledge of basic electrical
troubleshooting and internal combustion engine operations.
Ability to use, maintain and repair testing equipment/hand

The work requires sitting, stooping, bending and standing
for long periods of time. Also requires occasional lifting
of light objects of less than that of 25 pounds as well as
occasional lifting of objects 25 to 50 pounds. May on
occasion require lifting, with assistance, of objects
weighing 50 to 75 pounds.

The work involves working with various types of tools and
equipment typically found in a shop environment, i.e. hand
wrenches, air sanders, grinders, pneumatic tools and welder.
Working environment consist of dirt, dust, grease, etc., in
a shop setting consisting of machinery. Work is performed
indoors/outdoors, which may require exposure to weather

Club Car offers competitive wages with comprehensive
benefits. Please apply on-line. [ http://irco.com/careers/ ]

' ____
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)

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--- Begin Message ---
Actually, this is true for any customized, racing, or restored vehicle,
EV or otherwise. I'm spending about the same $ on the restoration and
performance upgrades to my MG as I am on the electric conversion.

- GT

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jay Donnaway [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 6:45 AM
> Subject: used EV values
> Jest to play devil's advocate, wouldn't Big Auto be justified 
> in their view of market demand for EVs; given the apparent 
> fact that even when slightly used quality conversions are 
> offered to hard-core EV enthusiasts, they rarely seem to sell 
> for more than the cost of parts? -let the beating commence! 
> Jay Donnaway Atlanta
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>>A 50W seat cushion works fine for my tush and
>>keeps me warm for a lot less energy than the 1300W cabin heater.
>I'd like to know what you are using for a seat cushion and where you
>found it.
>My car has heated front seats but the 7 year old in back is feeling left

I don't know where he got his, but you can buy them at places like Wal-Mart,
Target, etc.  They usually also come with 3 or 4 point "massage" units built
in also.  The ones I've seen plug into a cigarette lighter/outlet and cost
about $20 give or take $10.

Personally I think the message parts are worthless and/or uncomfortable, but
the warming part works great.  If you're the handy sort you cold probably
remove the heating element and install it directly into the seat.
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Gary Graunke wrote:
> Ok, looks like I need to go all-metal. But where to find the
> tank--coffeepots, surplus stores, RV stores--so far the best I've found is a
> one gallon paint can! I'll keep looking, but I was hoping someone already
> had something that they were happy with and could recommend. Yes, I realize
> that most people replace the heat exchanger with a ceramic core, but our
> local concensus was that staying with liquid would be easier for the complex
> Insight climate control.
> I don't plan on using all 4500W at once.  To have an AC capability, it seems
> easier to just get another element that to switch between AC and DC. Thus
> the third element.

Gary and all,

As always, thanks goodness, you have many choices and suggestions.
I'd add one more - if I were you (and I will be doing similar heating 
system modification), I'd consider a water heating system specifically
made for use in an EV, complete with expansion tank (2 or 3 liters), 
hot water pump, temp sensors, relays etc. Pretty much bolt in solution 
and no mess with ripping off the dash, heater core, mounting ceramic 
heaters and blowers, relays, etc. (unless you enjoy this type of 
activity :-)

Please take a look at RM3 or RM4 heaters:

http://www.cebi.com/cebi/mes_dea/mes_dea_products.htm on the bottom
of the page

Brusa sells these too: http://www.brusa.biz/products/e_rm_4249.htm

I'm ordering one and getting some printed material (specs etc.) 
from the manufacturer (MES-DEA); if you're interested, please 
contact me.


p.s. Should I stock these too? People seem to stuck with ceramic
solution, probably because alternatives aren't well known or
perceived as not worth the cost.
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>From:  "Chris Tromley"
>Date:  Wed Dec 11, 2002  10:50 pm
>Subject:  RE: Perfect High-Dollar EV
>I really didn't want to continue this, but now you've suggested I've
>insulted people. If I have, I apologize, but I honestly don't know how.

Wayland would probably say the same thing! I'm sure he'd feel rotten if
someone were personally insulted by his posts. The body of John's
writing on the EV list speaks as loudly as his stereos that he isn't
condescending in the least when it comes to assisting individuals.

The thread obviously got out of control. So John has a grudge against
Solectria! He is angry at them because of the poisoning effect they
caused to Portland city officials and the state Dept. of Environmental
Quality (DEQ). They won a contract in Portland over E-Car, of which John
was a partner, several years ago. The cars (2 Forces) became an
embarrassment to the city due to poor performance and recurring charging
problems. When I was speaking to an air quality person with the DEQ in
Portland (on another issue), she winced when I mentioned EVs; I came to
find that the DEQ people who went to bat for Evs took a beating because
of the project's failure. It's a long sad story. More than likely, an
E-car conversion would in many ways have served the public better, with
enough $ left over for a years' salary for someone.

I hope the vehicles Solectria sent to PDX were flukes.

John has over-generalized about us "engineers" as a group. I hope he'll
tone it down on-list. John used to work for the Post Office so he knows
what it's like to be a victim of negative stereotypes for goodness
sakes. Most people have mixed feelings at best about the engineering
profession. Are they Honest, yes. Competent? Well... Make sure the
products are tested... Oddly enough, this might support the argument
that he IS in touch with the general public! Just ask Dilbert! John did
not invent criticizing engineering (we shall o-ver-come some

Engineering is like most other jobs, in that when you do it right no one
notices because things go as they should, as expected. A different
analogy might be the Music industry. How many of us know or have seen
gifted musicians with twice (or 10X) the talent of your typical rock
star, yet have gone nowhere or chosen another profession? OK well maybe
that blurred more lines than it sharpened, but it does apply somehow, I
know it.

- GT
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In <005901c2a531$e6736d20$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 12/16/02 
   at 10:35 AM, "Bruce Tucker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

>The audio files that I created from the web broadcast of the December 5th
>CARB ZEV Mandate Workshop are now available online at
>http://www.socalev.com/Main_Frame/december_5.htm .

Thank you!

"Mark Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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For those that could use a tax deduction, be aware that 
the Electric Auto Association (EAA) http://eaaev.org is 
set up to ease that task.

The EAA is accepting donations either by using the 
paypal method (online transaction), or the print-able 
form to fill out and PO mail with their payment. 

Public EV charging funds are available for donations to
increase the public EV charging infrastructure. 

For a description of the funds you may donate to, or 
for questions on tax deductible EAA donations, please
see the donation pages on the EAA site http://eaaev.org

Since 1967, the Electric Auto Association, a nonprofit
501 3 c , has been helping the public know their cleaner, 
quieter Electric Transportation options.

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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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