EV Digest 2526
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) New EV Project
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EVLN(ZAP's 3x performance batt forward-looking statements)-long
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: electric breadbasket/new catch phrase.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: New EV Project
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 110V AVCON Adapter
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Evercell cycling report for cycle 149
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: New EV Project
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: New EV Project
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: New EV Project
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) How Best To Promote Our Cause
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Trojan battery caps
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Rabbit based EV brakes WAS-Re: gimme a brake ...
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Trojan battery caps
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Trojan battery caps
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Well my first official EV project is underway. I did electrify one of the
kids scooters a few months ago, but that doesn't count.
I just brought home the donor vehicle today. It is a 1974 Suzuki GT250. It
has less then 5000 miles on it, and is in decent shape. There is some rust
on some of the chrome, some scratches on some of the paint, the lights don't
seem to work, and the front brake sticks. It seems to have a nice strong
frame and be in sound shape other then that. It even has the original
tires. I gave the kids some rides up and down the street, but the
carberauter seems to need adjusting, and it is noisy, and stinky, so rather
then run the gas all the way out like I was planning, I think I will just
drain the tank and tear into it.
The basic plan is this. ADC 6.7 inch motor. The main reason I chose this,
is because I was able to get it for $125. John Wayland has a bunch he is
selling at that price. The controller is a Curtis 1204 36-48V 275A.
Batteries are still undetermined, but I have 6 Hawker GP13s that I am going
to use to test with after I get it assembled before I make my final
batteries decision. I want to build this to do a fairly long commute, 25
miles one way, mostly freeway, and I want to see what kind of WH/Mile I end
up with before commiting to batteris. Right now I am thinking that 4 Group
31 Optimas are the most likely choice. I would love to do Evercells, but
we'll see when anyone can actually get their hands on some. I am also still
considering NiCads. If I go with AGM's I will probably use a modular
charger made up of 4 of the Toshiba Laptop chargers. After the thread
started about these being great for charging AGM's I realized I had a couple
laying around. I have been playing with them on my Hawkers and they really
do well. I actually have two different versions, one rated at 2 amps and
one rated at 2.7 amps. John and I hooked one up to one of my Hawkers and
measured it pumping in over 4 amps and it didn't seem to be breaking much of
a sweat, it did taper down after that.
I would rather be doing a car then a motorcycle, but everything about doing
a motorcycle costs less, and around here motorcycles get HOV access but
electric cars don't. Also with the low budget I can buid a motorcycle, and
won't have to get rid of my Honda Insight, so I can have both an EV and
Hybrid. If I were doing a car, I would have to sell the Insight.
I would have loved doing a small truck. The problem is I was seriously
considering buying Paul G (Neon)s VW truck. He only wants $7000 for it. My
wife was going to let me do it, until she caught me looking at pictures of
it. After making several disguested noises, she informed me that she hates
Rabbits and VW trucks. We are working on 14 years of marriage, and I had no
idea... Go figure. Anyway, knowing that I would probably have to spend 10K
- 12K and many hours to DIY a truck when I could have bought one as nice as
Pauls for 7k spoiled those plans, so it is off to the motorcycle races for
me.
damon
I put a picture of my donor here
http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/suzukileft.jpg
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> At 09:35 AM 1/7/03 -0500, you wrote:
> >Any insiders have information about the 'ZAP' battery?
>
> Someone on the powerassist list said that Zap was using the ThunderSky Li
> Ion batteries.
>
> compare this battery(right side of page)
> http://www.zapworld.com/news/maces.htm
>
> to this(bottom of page)
> http://www.thunder-sky.com/Cpjs(En).htm
>
> George S.
...to this: http://www.worley.com.au/wecs/LithION.html
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1sclunn wrote:
> how about "I'd rather switch than fight / bring on the electric cars"
I like it!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No way are you going to be able to fit enough batteries on a GT250 to go
25 miles at freeway speed.
Not unless you can afford LIons.
Well maybe if it is seriously streamlined.
On Fri, 2003-01-10 at 20:13, damon henry wrote:
> Well my first official EV project is underway. I did electrify one of the
> kids scooters a few months ago, but that doesn't count.
>
> I just brought home the donor vehicle today. It is a 1974 Suzuki GT250. It
> has less then 5000 miles on it, and is in decent shape. There is some rust
> on some of the chrome, some scratches on some of the paint, the lights don't
> seem to work, and the front brake sticks. It seems to have a nice strong
> frame and be in sound shape other then that. It even has the original
> tires. I gave the kids some rides up and down the street, but the
> carberauter seems to need adjusting, and it is noisy, and stinky, so rather
> then run the gas all the way out like I was planning, I think I will just
> drain the tank and tear into it.
>
> The basic plan is this. ADC 6.7 inch motor. The main reason I chose this,
> is because I was able to get it for $125. John Wayland has a bunch he is
> selling at that price. The controller is a Curtis 1204 36-48V 275A.
> Batteries are still undetermined, but I have 6 Hawker GP13s that I am going
> to use to test with after I get it assembled before I make my final
> batteries decision. I want to build this to do a fairly long commute, 25
> miles one way, mostly freeway, and I want to see what kind of WH/Mile I end
> up with before commiting to batteris. Right now I am thinking that 4 Group
> 31 Optimas are the most likely choice. I would love to do Evercells, but
> we'll see when anyone can actually get their hands on some. I am also still
> considering NiCads. If I go with AGM's I will probably use a modular
> charger made up of 4 of the Toshiba Laptop chargers. After the thread
> started about these being great for charging AGM's I realized I had a couple
> laying around. I have been playing with them on my Hawkers and they really
> do well. I actually have two different versions, one rated at 2 amps and
> one rated at 2.7 amps. John and I hooked one up to one of my Hawkers and
> measured it pumping in over 4 amps and it didn't seem to be breaking much of
> a sweat, it did taper down after that.
>
> I would rather be doing a car then a motorcycle, but everything about doing
> a motorcycle costs less, and around here motorcycles get HOV access but
> electric cars don't. Also with the low budget I can buid a motorcycle, and
> won't have to get rid of my Honda Insight, so I can have both an EV and
> Hybrid. If I were doing a car, I would have to sell the Insight.
>
> I would have loved doing a small truck. The problem is I was seriously
> considering buying Paul G (Neon)s VW truck. He only wants $7000 for it. My
> wife was going to let me do it, until she caught me looking at pictures of
> it. After making several disguested noises, she informed me that she hates
> Rabbits and VW trucks. We are working on 14 years of marriage, and I had no
> idea... Go figure. Anyway, knowing that I would probably have to spend 10K
> - 12K and many hours to DIY a truck when I could have bought one as nice as
> Pauls for 7k spoiled those plans, so it is off to the motorcycle races for
> me.
>
> damon
>
> I put a picture of my donor here
> http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/suzukileft.jpg
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
See
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RAV4_EV/message/3917
-
http://toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/index.html
<http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/images/rav4ev2.jpg>
Toyota Motor Corporation will discontinue production of the RAV4
Electric Vehicle worldwide in the spring of 2003. Therefore, Toyota
will no longer take orders for the RAV4 EV in the retail market in
California. However, Toyota will honor all orders made on the RAV4 EV
internet order system and finalized with a deposit at a dealership.
Toyota wishes to offer a sincere "thank you" to our customers who
purchased or leased a RAV4 EV. As always, customer satisfaction is
our highest priority and we hope that your experience in owning a
Toyota electric vehicle will continue to be positive. We understand
you may be concerned about Toyota's commitment to your investment.
Please be assured, Toyota will continue to ensure that dealers
capable of servicing RAV4 EVs are located in each major metropolitan
area in California throughout the 5-year powertrain warranty period
of your vehicles.
We also understand that many of our customers and supporters may have
questions about the discontinuation of RAV4 EV production and sales.
The linked Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) will provide answers to
many of these questions. We plan to update this list periodically as
new questions about RAV4 EV arise.
Once again, thank you for your interest in the RAV4 EV.
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BINGO!!!
There are two requirements to keeping an AVCON happy:
1) Every milliamps that leaves one hot wire has to return in the other hot
wire. If anything escapes, it indicates a ground fault and it shuts off.
2) The power factor needs to be fairly reasonable. I don't know the limit
but a light dimmer will put the box off-line in a hurry.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: 110V AVCON Adapter
> On 8 Jan 2003 at 16:36, Mason Convey wrote:
>
> >
> > i.e. tapping AVCON for 110 to feed an onboard charger...
> >
>
> Pardon my ignorance, but could this be done with something similar to an
> incandescent light dimmer? Or would the ugly waveform resulting play hob
> with the charger?
>
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
> thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am discharging at 48 +/- 1 amp until the battery voltage goes down to 8
volts.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Niessen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: Evercell cycling report for cycle 149
> What rate of discharge are you using on the cycle? I have heard that the
> Nickel Zinc batteries don't like heavy discharge and have a high internal
> resistance.
>
> At 01:46 AM 1/10/2003, you wrote:
> >The evercel being cycled to death has reached cycle 149.
> >
> >The summary graphic is located at
> >http://www.manzanitamicro.com/evercel%20cycle%20149%20summary.gif
> >
> >The capacity is now just under 73 ahr.
> >
> >Joe Smalley
> >Rural Kitsap County WA
> >Fiesta 48 volts
> >NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> On Fri, 2003-01-10 at 20:13, damon henry wrote:
> Well my first official EV project is underway. I did electrify one
> of the kids scooters a few months ago, but that doesn't count.
Exposing young folks to electrics doesn't count? I can't think of
anything more important. Good on ya Mate
Lock
______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I always love it when I read about how an OEM can't keep up with demand
for EVs (Not enough 2002 models to go around so some 2002 customers get
2003 models) and then cancels the program due to lack of demand.
On Fri, 2003-01-10 at 21:48, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> See
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RAV4_EV/message/3917
>
> -
> http://toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/index.html
> <http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/images/rav4ev2.jpg>
>
> Toyota Motor Corporation will discontinue production of the RAV4
> Electric Vehicle worldwide in the spring of 2003. Therefore, Toyota
> will no longer take orders for the RAV4 EV in the retail market in
> California. However, Toyota will honor all orders made on the RAV4 EV
> internet order system and finalized with a deposit at a dealership.
>
> Toyota wishes to offer a sincere "thank you" to our customers who
> purchased or leased a RAV4 EV. As always, customer satisfaction is
> our highest priority and we hope that your experience in owning a
> Toyota electric vehicle will continue to be positive. We understand
> you may be concerned about Toyota's commitment to your investment.
> Please be assured, Toyota will continue to ensure that dealers
> capable of servicing RAV4 EVs are located in each major metropolitan
> area in California throughout the 5-year powertrain warranty period
> of your vehicles.
>
> We also understand that many of our customers and supporters may have
> questions about the discontinuation of RAV4 EV production and sales.
> The linked Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) will provide answers to
> many of these questions. We plan to update this list periodically as
> new questions about RAV4 EV arise.
>
> Once again, thank you for your interest in the RAV4 EV.
> -
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't believe it will be easy, but I do believe I could do it with
Evercells and perhaps some other batteries, although Evercells for me are
still unproven and unattainable. That is why I am going to build the bike
first then chose batteries.
I do have backup plans. There is a public charging station I could swing by
at about the halfway point. This would be a bit out of the way and would
require me to get a charger that can do big amps as I wouldn't want to be
there all day. There are also other alternate routes that aren't all
freeway. My first choice is to use the freeway (which of course doesn't
always mean freeway speeds) and adjust from there.
I really don't know what I will be able to do until after I see what it
takes to move the bike. I haven't seen many examples of EV motorcycles to
compare to, but the ones I have seen have not met my range and speed
requirements and I know there is a reason why they have not, but I'm willing
to give it a go. If it is apparent that there is no way I will get the
range I want, then I will get a few more Hawkers and keep it a short range
bike.
I've talked this project over with John Wayland a bunch, and he seems
confident we can get the range out of it. I am a bit skeptical, but do
believe that it will work with either Evercells or Saft Nicads, and could
possibly work with the Group 31 Optimas. As far as getting enough batteries
on, I can think of lots of creative ways to mount batteries on it, so my
only real concern is weight.
From: Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New EV Project
Date: 10 Jan 2003 21:02:56 -0700
No way are you going to be able to fit enough batteries on a GT250 to go
25 miles at freeway speed.
Not unless you can afford LIons.
Well maybe if it is seriously streamlined.
On Fri, 2003-01-10 at 20:13, damon henry wrote:
> Well my first official EV project is underway. I did electrify one of
the
> kids scooters a few months ago, but that doesn't count.
>
> I just brought home the donor vehicle today. It is a 1974 Suzuki GT250.
It
> has less then 5000 miles on it, and is in decent shape. There is some
rust
> on some of the chrome, some scratches on some of the paint, the lights
don't
> seem to work, and the front brake sticks. It seems to have a nice
strong
> frame and be in sound shape other then that. It even has the original
> tires. I gave the kids some rides up and down the street, but the
> carberauter seems to need adjusting, and it is noisy, and stinky, so
rather
> then run the gas all the way out like I was planning, I think I will
just
> drain the tank and tear into it.
>
> The basic plan is this. ADC 6.7 inch motor. The main reason I chose
this,
> is because I was able to get it for $125. John Wayland has a bunch he
is
> selling at that price. The controller is a Curtis 1204 36-48V 275A.
> Batteries are still undetermined, but I have 6 Hawker GP13s that I am
going
> to use to test with after I get it assembled before I make my final
> batteries decision. I want to build this to do a fairly long commute,
25
> miles one way, mostly freeway, and I want to see what kind of WH/Mile I
end
> up with before commiting to batteris. Right now I am thinking that 4
Group
> 31 Optimas are the most likely choice. I would love to do Evercells,
but
> we'll see when anyone can actually get their hands on some. I am also
still
> considering NiCads. If I go with AGM's I will probably use a modular
> charger made up of 4 of the Toshiba Laptop chargers. After the thread
> started about these being great for charging AGM's I realized I had a
couple
> laying around. I have been playing with them on my Hawkers and they
really
> do well. I actually have two different versions, one rated at 2 amps
and
> one rated at 2.7 amps. John and I hooked one up to one of my Hawkers
and
> measured it pumping in over 4 amps and it didn't seem to be breaking
much of
> a sweat, it did taper down after that.
>
> I would rather be doing a car then a motorcycle, but everything about
doing
> a motorcycle costs less, and around here motorcycles get HOV access but
> electric cars don't. Also with the low budget I can buid a motorcycle,
and
> won't have to get rid of my Honda Insight, so I can have both an EV and
> Hybrid. If I were doing a car, I would have to sell the Insight.
>
> I would have loved doing a small truck. The problem is I was seriously
> considering buying Paul G (Neon)s VW truck. He only wants $7000 for it.
My
> wife was going to let me do it, until she caught me looking at pictures
of
> it. After making several disguested noises, she informed me that she
hates
> Rabbits and VW trucks. We are working on 14 years of marriage, and I
had no
> idea... Go figure. Anyway, knowing that I would probably have to spend
10K
> - 12K and many hours to DIY a truck when I could have bought one as nice
as
> Pauls for 7k spoiled those plans, so it is off to the motorcycle races
for
> me.
>
> damon
>
> I put a picture of my donor here
> http://home.attbi.com/~damonhenry/suzukileft.jpg
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
--
EVDL
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It doesn't count, because it is kid sized so I can't really ride it.
From: Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: New EV Project
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:22:13 -0500 (EST)
> On Fri, 2003-01-10 at 20:13, damon henry wrote:
> Well my first official EV project is underway. I did electrify one
> of the kids scooters a few months ago, but that doesn't count.
Exposing young folks to electrics doesn't count? I can't think of
anything more important. Good on ya Mate
Lock
______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
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--- Begin Message ---
Dear Folks:
Thank you so much for all your assistance and ideas for the EV presentation
to the foundation people.
It all boils down to a pretty simple message: educating the public.
Hopefully we can get some projects funded for the EAA as that other
organization has fallen over to the dark side.
Pro-EV PSAs are one of my pet projects. As much glee as I got from Arianna's
Anti-Foreign Oil ads, I still believe positive messages register best with
all the uninformed out there as opposed to slinging mud at our opponents.
Another good idea is funding Solar PV/EV combo installs at local high
schools. Kids exposed to the technologies can enjoy the EV and watch the
meter spin back when the sun shines. Seems to make me real happy. And it
would add to the charging infrastructure at the same time.
Grants to get more EVs on the road by way of vehicle donations to various
non-profits needing vehicles, i.e., Meals On Wheels, etc., will also provide
an outlet for EVs from the two remaining players in the production world
that I know of: AC Propulsion and CommuterCars.
Grants for independent research on battery cycle/life/management are surely
indicated- if anyone knows about EV or battery related research being
conducted on the university level please let me know.
The meeting is this Sunday, and if anyone's got the juice to help drive our
cause, these people do. And after the sad news today we can use all the help
we can get.
Recent posts regarding education have got me going, and my teacher-neighbor
DID ask if I would bring the EVs to school and do a little presentation on
solar power and EVs...
J. Marvin Campbell
Culver City, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Nawaz,
The original question was about the 8 volt battery's by Trojan, I might be
wrong (correct me if I am) but I tried the 8volt US battery speed cap on a
8volt Trojan and it didn't fit? What do you suggest?
I want to thank you for monitoring this list and setting the facts
straight. By the way, I did as you suggested and lower the concentration of
acid by 150cc to 1.230 SG, to help the battery's last longer in the high
heat of the desert, so far so good time will tell.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nawaz Qureshi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Don Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Trojan battery caps
> Hi:
>
> IMHO, the US Battery's SpeedCap" are your best option, and they will
> also fit on Trojans as far as the intercell hole spacing is concerned
> (it is the same in all GC and other type of batteries). Just make sure
> the rubber gasket is tight. Many Trojan battery users switch to
> SpeedCap"s because the original ganged caps from Trojan (Master Vent
> snap in) leak and spit acid.
>
> Trojan batteries gas more because they use 6% antimony positive grid
> alloy vs. 5% for USBMC which gas less.
>
> All caps will leak if you over fill by adding water before charging.
> Always add water after charging and about 1/8" below the bottom edge of
> the fill well.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Nawaz Qureshi
>
> David Brandt wrote:
>
> >I can second that. I was leery of the speedcaps because of comments from
> >the list, but my battery guy said to try them, and they would give me the
> >other kind if they leaked. So far, they are dry as can be, and it is
easier
> >to keep them clean. They seal VERY tightly, with lots of compression in
the
> >gaskets. The caps on my old trojans leaked like they weren't even there,
> >and hardly had any compression in the gaskets.
> >
> >The only bad point I've noticed about the speedcaps is that they take up
a
> >lot of space, and can create interference problems with the
interconnects.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Richard Furniss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:51 PM
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: Trojan battery caps
> >
> >
> >I take it that the single twist caps are interchangeable between US
battery
> >and Trojan, is there any opinion on which is better? I know that the new
> >speed caps from US battery have some kind of crystal in it to keep the
acid
> >in the battery and it works great, the US battery's with those speed caps
> >are as dry as dust.
> >
> >From: "Mark Hanson"
> >
> >
> >
> >>I had to change to the standard twist off caps. Mitch Oates just did
too.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>Chuck Hursch
> >>I don't know if they are the same as yours (mine twist in like
> >>most battery caps), but the big white caps on my Trojan T125s
> >>turned up several leakers. I was fortunate enough to save the
> >>good caps (smaller caps with 4 fins sticking out of them) from my
> >>old US2300s (Jim Ramos at American Battery in Hayward, CA threw
> >>in a bag of those when I got my first pack, and I eventually
> >>swapped them in place of those funky 3-in-1 cap assemblies), and
> >>those do much better than the Trojan caps. There is also the
> >>matter of gasket seal to the rim of the cell. Sunday I was
> >>gassing the spare T125s on the deck with an equalizing charge,
> >>and noticed some acid leaking out around some of the Trojan caps.
> >>Thought, oops, overfilled, but no the level had only come up
> >>maybe a quarter inch or so. Just the good fizzing overpowered
> >>the caps.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >www.lasvegasev.com
> >Richard Furniss
> >Las Vegas, NV
> >1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
> >1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
> >3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
> >Board Member, www.lveva.org
> >Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
> >
> >
> >IMPORTANT - THIS MESSAGE (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS INTENDED ONLY FOR
> >THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED, AND MAY
> >CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM
> >DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT,
YOU
> >SHOULD DELETE THIS MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY AND YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT
ANY
> >READING, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE, OR THE
> >TAKING OF ANY ACTION BASED ON IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THANK YOU.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How fast do you think they would get with the program if converting there
gas cars to EV's started becomming the "new thing" .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 8:48 PM
Subject: Toyota pulls a Honda and kills RAV4 EV
> See
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RAV4_EV/message/3917
>
> -
> http://toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/index.html
>
<http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/ravev/rav4ev_0_home/images/rav4ev2
.jpg>
>
> Toyota Motor Corporation will discontinue production of the RAV4
> Electric Vehicle worldwide in the spring of 2003. Therefore, Toyota
> will no longer take orders for the RAV4 EV in the retail market in
> California. However, Toyota will honor all orders made on the RAV4 EV
> internet order system and finalized with a deposit at a dealership.
>
> Toyota wishes to offer a sincere "thank you" to our customers who
> purchased or leased a RAV4 EV. As always, customer satisfaction is
> our highest priority and we hope that your experience in owning a
> Toyota electric vehicle will continue to be positive. We understand
> you may be concerned about Toyota's commitment to your investment.
> Please be assured, Toyota will continue to ensure that dealers
> capable of servicing RAV4 EVs are located in each major metropolitan
> area in California throughout the 5-year powertrain warranty period
> of your vehicles.
>
> We also understand that many of our customers and supporters may have
> questions about the discontinuation of RAV4 EV production and sales.
> The linked Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) will provide answers to
> many of these questions. We plan to update this list periodically as
> new questions about RAV4 EV arise.
>
> Once again, thank you for your interest in the RAV4 EV.
> -
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, large-diameter rotors might not be such a bad idea.
Everytime I look at the rotors on Preston McCoy's Porsche 912 EV
(www.geocities.com/nbeaa), I kinda go "Wow!". He says he can
haul his car down in a hurry...
So what you're saying, Seth, is that I likely have the wimpy 15mm
ball joints, and that maybe, someday, those should be upgraded.
I do not recall replacing the ball joints when we did the
conversion back in '94, although I remember looking at them out
there in free space, as everything else around them was rather
extensively disassembled. My main suspension problems have been
pounding out the struts in the front (the bearings in the top
blew out), and also the steering rack got loose (that latter may
have just been its time rather than from weight and high-pressure
times), so new steering rack, but they didn't adjust it
correctly, so now thunka, thunka down the road with many bumps.
So now have a set of nitrogen-filled struts and bigger, cushier
tires to soak up the spikes on the struts a bit.
I am a little worried/annoyed with a sound I've been getting from
the passenger-side rear. A bit of a thunking sound with some
bumps. Checked the strut at the top where it bolts into the body
in the "trunk" area, and it was solid as a rock, at least to the
extent I could move it by trying to budge it with a hundred
pounds or two of force with my body, so nut not loose. I suspect
the strut or a damper bushing needs replaced, but it's a little
hard for me to diagnose. The mechanic said it was fine back in
2000, but I think that was before the noise started. Any
suggestions? The rear suspension components don't seem to get as
hammered as their relatives up front.
Please go ahead and post about the 15->17mm balljoint upgrade,
enough so that those of us who might want to do it would have a
fair idea of what's coming their way.
Thanks,
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
Seth wrote:
> A note about VW rabbits and front and rear brake parts and
suspensions.
>
> Early rabbits had smaller (15mm, IIRC) ball joints than later
(17mm, I
> think). A heavier car like an EV might want the later steering
knuckle
> and balljoint so they don't break. If they upgraded to the 17mm
on the
> stock rabbit, then an EV probably should have that also. Around
1980
> they went to the Kelsey Hayes MkII front caliper, the one Chuck
has.
> This caliper lets you bolt in the inexpensive upgrade of vented
rotors
> in the front, probably a good idea for a EV. I am pretty sure
that the
> easiest way would be to change the knuckle, ball joint caliper
frame,
> caliper, hub and wheel bearings as more or less one piece on
each side.
> The knuckles and calipers are probably next to free at a
junkyard and
> the bearings, hubs, brake pads and ball joints are about $20
each if you
> know where to look. Also if you want a high performance pad
that works
> on the street, try Hawk HPS compound. I know it has been
available for
> CRXs and VWs and it stops VERY well, hot and like a semi-metal
when
> cold, and it's about $35. Don't get the black or blue compund,
they ar
> race only, stop a bit better when very hot, but have poor cold
performance.
>
> There is another level of upgrade, involving larger diameter
rotors, but
> it is involved and probably not what an EV needs.
>
> I ramble, but I figure most rabbit EVs out there have old
balljoints in
> them, and some are probably in need of an upgrade. There is a
similar
> upgrade for golf IIs, but I haven't heard of any on the list.
If asked I
> can post about that.
>
>
> HTH
>
> Seth
>
> Chuck Hursch wrote:
> >
> > On the Rabbit, when we did the conversion back in '94, we
> > refurbished the brakes with organic linings. On my steep
(~20%
> > grade) hill coming down from the apt, I wanted to know if I
could
> > stop myself in case my front hydraulic brakes failed. So
headed
> > down the hill and pulled up on the emergency brake handle
between
> > the seats. No stop. No fastah, but no stop. The rear brake
> > linings were the first to go, inside of 10K miles. Hmm, not
> > good, I thought EVs were supposed to have lower
maintenance...
> > So, Preston, the fellow EV'er who helped me convert my
vehicle,
> > had had good experience with carbon-kevlar linings from
> > Porterfield on his VW Vanagon. I ordered up a set of shoes
with
> > carbon-kevlar street linings for the rear drums and we
installed
> > them. They have basically exceeded my expectations, and
they're
> > still going strong some 10K+ miles and several years later.
Back
> > to the hill test, and I was impressed! Yank, and come to a
> > sliding stop, locking up the wheels. Can be done repeatedly
and
> > rather reliably, although it's tough on rear tires :-|. So
I
> > now felt safer against a runaway on my hill. Next up, my
front
> > organics ran out, except this time my inspection method
failed
> > me, since I was only seeing the outside shoes through the
hole on
> > the disc brakes up front. My mechanic had the car up on the
> > hoist for the frequent CV boot replacement, and made a
emphatic
> > note to me that my linings (the insides) were nearly down to
the
> > rivets. Not good! So I had to punt and take him up on his
offer
> > (rather than what I was holding out for which was Porterfield
> > carbon-kevlars on the front too), since he wasn't up for
letting
> > my vehicle out of the shop. He produced a nice set of vented
and
> > grooved rotors (which was another upgrade angle I was working
on)
> > and a set of semi-metallic "rotor eater" linings. Installed,
and
> > I could feel the well-known warm-up time (which wasn't long
> > considering the descent from my apt). Those linings have
been in
> > there several years by now, and he says they're doing fine.
And
> > I also note that no sweat forms on my brow like it used to
when I
> > had a big hill descent in front of my EV. I pretty much take
it
> > like all the gas cars do. And when my car was down in the
South
> > Bay last year for an "extended period", we had the vehicle
out on
> > the freeway (Hi101) doing 70mph for some testing.
Unfortunately,
> > came up real fast on a traffic jam and all the brake lights
lit
> > up. It was work, but I got 'er hauled down with room to
spare.
> > It would help a bit if I had the vacuum assist going, but
that's
> > another story...
> >
> > Bottom line is from experience I strongly recommend getting
away
> > from the stock crap organic linings. Our EVs put a lot of
heat
> > on their linings, especially if you are in hilly country. Go
> > with carbon-kevlar (my first choice) or semi-metallics (the
> > braking is not so good till they warm up). Porterfield
likely
> > does not have shoes for your S-10, but there are probably
shops
> > that do. Police vehicles at least used to run semi-metallics
or
> > some such. Maybe your Kragen metallics would be a good bet.
> >
> --
> vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Biggest reason I ditched mine were that they were hard to clean
around, under, and through. There's enough on top of a battery
as it is to get tangled up in. My monthly battery maintenance
consists of tightening the battery post clamps down, (every other
month doing a complete walkthrough measuring standing voltage and
taking hydrometer readings), water top off, wipe the batteries
down with windex, and equalization charge. Guess what, the
wipedown is probably the most laborious, with the possible
exception of the hydrometer pass, and is the hardest on the back.
I don't need any more grief from speed caps.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
----- Original Message -----
From: David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'Richard Furniss' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 5:52 AM
Subject: RE: Trojan battery caps
> I can second that. I was leery of the speedcaps because of
comments from
> the list, but my battery guy said to try them, and they would
give me the
> other kind if they leaked. So far, they are dry as can be, and
it is easier
> to keep them clean. They seal VERY tightly, with lots of
compression in the
> gaskets. The caps on my old trojans leaked like they weren't
even there,
> and hardly had any compression in the gaskets.
>
> The only bad point I've noticed about the speedcaps is that
they take up a
> lot of space, and can create interference problems with the
interconnects.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Furniss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:51 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Trojan battery caps
>
>
> I take it that the single twist caps are interchangeable
between US battery
> and Trojan, is there any opinion on which is better? I know
that the new
> speed caps from US battery have some kind of crystal in it to
keep the acid
> in the battery and it works great, the US battery's with those
speed caps
> are as dry as dust.
>
> From: "Mark Hanson"
>
> > I had to change to the standard twist off caps. Mitch Oates
just did too.
>
> > Chuck Hursch
> > I don't know if they are the same as yours (mine twist in
like
> > most battery caps), but the big white caps on my Trojan T125s
> > turned up several leakers. I was fortunate enough to save
the
> > good caps (smaller caps with 4 fins sticking out of them)
from my
> > old US2300s (Jim Ramos at American Battery in Hayward, CA
threw
> > in a bag of those when I got my first pack, and I eventually
> > swapped them in place of those funky 3-in-1 cap assemblies),
and
> > those do much better than the Trojan caps. There is also the
> > matter of gasket seal to the rim of the cell. Sunday I was
> > gassing the spare T125s on the deck with an equalizing
charge,
> > and noticed some acid leaking out around some of the Trojan
caps.
> > Thought, oops, overfilled, but no the level had only come up
> > maybe a quarter inch or so. Just the good fizzing
overpowered
> > the caps.
> >
>
>
> www.lasvegasev.com
> Richard Furniss
> Las Vegas, NV
> 1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
> 1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
> 3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
> Board Member, www.lveva.org
> Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
>
>
> IMPORTANT - THIS MESSAGE (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS
INTENDED ONLY FOR
> THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED,
AND MAY
> CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT
FROM
> DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED
RECIPIENT, YOU
> SHOULD DELETE THIS MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY AND YOU ARE HEREBY
NOTIFIED THAT ANY
> READING, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS
MESSAGE, OR THE
> TAKING OF ANY ACTION BASED ON IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THANK
YOU.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I disagree about the intercell hole spacing. The speed caps I
had for my US2300s would not fit my Trojan T125s - I'm pretty
sure I tried it just as an experiment. I think the Trojans are
closer together. However, what may be happening here is that my
Trojan T125s are in a totally opaque maroon case. They look just
like Trojan T105s, but say T125 on the top. The Trojan T125s
used to come with green tops and white-colored cases. Maybe that
is the difference, dunno.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
Nawaz Qureshi wrote:
> Hi:
>
> IMHO, the US Battery's SpeedCap^(TM) are your best option, and
they will
> also fit on Trojans as far as the intercell hole spacing is
concerned
> (it is the same in all GC and other type of batteries). Just
make sure
> the rubber gasket is tight. Many Trojan battery users switch to
> SpeedCap^(TM)s because the original ganged caps from Trojan
(Master Vent
> snap in) leak and spit acid.
>
> Trojan batteries gas more because they use 6% antimony positive
grid
> alloy vs. 5% for USBMC which gas less.
>
> All caps will leak if you over fill by adding water before
charging.
> Always add water after charging and about 1/8" below the bottom
edge of
> the fill well.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Nawaz Qureshi
>
> David Brandt wrote:
>
> >I can second that. I was leery of the speedcaps because of
comments from
> >the list, but my battery guy said to try them, and they would
give me the
> >other kind if they leaked. So far, they are dry as can be,
and it is easier
> >to keep them clean. They seal VERY tightly, with lots of
compression in the
> >gaskets. The caps on my old trojans leaked like they weren't
even there,
> >and hardly had any compression in the gaskets.
> >
> >The only bad point I've noticed about the speedcaps is that
they take up a
> >lot of space, and can create interference problems with the
interconnects.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Richard Furniss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:51 PM
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: Trojan battery caps
> >
> >
> >I take it that the single twist caps are interchangeable
between US battery
> >and Trojan, is there any opinion on which is better? I know
that the new
> >speed caps from US battery have some kind of crystal in it to
keep the acid
> >in the battery and it works great, the US battery's with those
speed caps
> >are as dry as dust.
> >
> >From: "Mark Hanson"
> >
> >
> >
> >>I had to change to the standard twist off caps. Mitch Oates
just did too.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>Chuck Hursch
> >>I don't know if they are the same as yours (mine twist in
like
> >>most battery caps), but the big white caps on my Trojan T125s
> >>turned up several leakers. I was fortunate enough to save
the
> >>good caps (smaller caps with 4 fins sticking out of them)
from my
> >>old US2300s (Jim Ramos at American Battery in Hayward, CA
threw
> >>in a bag of those when I got my first pack, and I eventually
> >>swapped them in place of those funky 3-in-1 cap assemblies),
and
> >>those do much better than the Trojan caps. There is also the
> >>matter of gasket seal to the rim of the cell. Sunday I was
> >>gassing the spare T125s on the deck with an equalizing
charge,
> >>and noticed some acid leaking out around some of the Trojan
caps.
> >>Thought, oops, overfilled, but no the level had only come up
> >>maybe a quarter inch or so. Just the good fizzing
overpowered
> >>the caps.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >www.lasvegasev.com
> >Richard Furniss
> >Las Vegas, NV
> >1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
> >1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
> >3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
> >Board Member, www.lveva.org
> >Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
> >
> >
> >IMPORTANT - THIS MESSAGE (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS
INTENDED ONLY FOR
> >THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED,
AND MAY
> >CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL AND
EXEMPT FROM
> >DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED
RECIPIENT, YOU
> >SHOULD DELETE THIS MESSAGE IMMEDIATELY AND YOU ARE HEREBY
NOTIFIED THAT ANY
> >READING, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS
MESSAGE, OR THE
> >TAKING OF ANY ACTION BASED ON IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. THANK
YOU.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
